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 New consoles from the big three, madness or brilliant? (Now with added Scorpio & Neo!) This the last gen?

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Muss
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PostSubject: Re: New consoles from the big three, madness or brilliant? (Now with added Scorpio & Neo!) This the last gen?   Tue 23 May 2017 - 16:19

Well this thread's moved on but here's a fun fact. I didn't get an "HD" screen until..... 2015 - when I built my supercomputer. Which, funnily enough, is capable of playing games in 4k - I'm just no interested in shelling out for a massive screen. But my machine will kick the shit out of any game, 1080p ultra, for years to come.

As mentioned, PC's don't need to be upgraded constantly unless you have to be at the forefront of tech. I specifically built mine to last. I know where I could upgrade it power wise, but won't until I can't run games at middling settings. I love having it. Most games that are 'exclusive' wind up coming to steam anyway with full controller support, and I can use it for work while having dem strategy games you don't see on consoles because of UI problems.

It's difficult to know how well a game will run unless you've got a monster under your desk though, which is probably why you get such a fervor amongst PC gamers for frame rates and bollocks about fidelity.

I think consoles could, in some circumstances, benefit from a PC lite settings menu. E.G., choice between higher frame rate or higher view distance. But all of these features come at a very real development cost. There are those youtubers out there who get on their high horse about how 1080p 60fps should be an industry standard. They show no consideration for the development costs of such a statement. Of course certain games run at 60 always, fighters and shooters commonly, but they're massively different to open world games. Just think about how much more The Witcher 3 has to constantly render over something like Rainbow 6 Siege or Street Fighter 5.

The thing is though, all those extra frames and pixels don't actually make the game better... I mean, they do of course, in the sense that it looks and plays nicer. That's why I'm happy having MGS V on PC over PS4. But relative to another game it makes no real difference. MGSV isn't suddenly better than Assassin's Creed Syndicate because I can get the former to run at 60 on PC, and the other I played at 30 on console. It's better because it's better designed game. And, like I've said before, once I'm playing a game I'm not thinking, shit this bastard's not running at X resolution or X fps, unless the game's choppy as fuck.

To me, the mentality of - I have a Pro/Scorpio, therefore the devs must use all that extra power, is the same as wanting to have a cake and eat it. I get that this minority (look at dem underwhelming pro sales) want their toys used to the fullest, but  just how reasonable is it to expect a dev/publisher, already working on games in an era of skyrocketing costs, to spend even more resources on features that a handful will benefit from? Are they seeing extra sales from this, or rather, enough sales to justify that expense? Are Sony helping out with Pro patches? Are these rising costs really a net benefit to the majority of the gaming public? I have a suspicion that the answer to all those questions is no.

And before anyone says, yeah but PC's have settings. If you're designing a game for a PC, you are fully aware of that going in, and fully aware that making software comparable with various hardware configurations = more $$$. This is not comparable to the console market which offers fixed systems, with the low power model being the vastly more popular choice.


All of that makes me think, thank fuck for Nintendo, because they're putting equipment out there that says. Oi, Devo's. Make yer game's boot proper quick and run decently on this closed system. That's it, go. It has that immediacy which consoles want you to believe they still offer, even when they can take a fucking year to boot up games (Remember Killzone 3 on PS3, any WWE 2k game, Madden, fucking arcadey american football sim madden for Christs sake how much fucking contact do you need with the EA servers you twat I just want a quick exhibition). While also taking the better bits of modern gaming, like you know the ability to have patches fix things that don't work or aren't balanced. Plus, when Nintendo do put something like the ill-named "New" 3ds out, they don't start goin ooohhh...errr...ummm about wheter it'll have exclusives or not. Nintendo stuff does what it says on the tin.
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PostSubject: Re: New consoles from the big three, madness or brilliant? (Now with added Scorpio & Neo!) This the last gen?   Tue 23 May 2017 - 16:55

I own a Pro and I'm not going devs need to use all the power, I know that it is a PS4 still at it's heart and the game is made for that.

If MS are saying that's not the case for Scorpio and dev can use all the POWER! and not worry about One then I guess that's good as are making the game they want to make, even though it may hinder the One version which would still come.

Is Pro sales numbers that underwhelming when this time last year there where only around 1.5 million 4KTV's the wild, I don't know how many they're are now but let's say it tripled to 9 million that is still a small audience + the ones without a 4KTV who might be interested in a Pro/Scorpio.

I still disagree with the Nintendo praise as they've made 32 mid-gen upgrades and had exclusive games tied to the upgrades to me that is worse thing to do to alienate most of the 3DS install-base with a game like Fire Emblem Warriors that only the New owners can play.

Yet if I had a launch PS4, I'd still be able to play The Last of Us Part II when that comes out.

The question I ask you though Muss, if you have a decent PC why get a PS4 then? I've said on here before I do think PC + Nintendo is the way go but I just prefer console gaming.

In that way I do want to have my cake and eat as I want PC like settings, simplified, cheap, multiplayer with mates and exclusives
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PostSubject: Re: New consoles from the big three, madness or brilliant? (Now with added Scorpio & Neo!) This the last gen?   Tue 23 May 2017 - 17:45

The PS4 has exclusives I want which aren't on PC. Also Konami put more effort into Console PES games.

Also mate I think you've missed out the entire point of my cake. Ask yourself this: in what way is the GBA SP upgrade is similar to a PS4 Pro? Which one offers an immediately apparent upgrade in form and screen while not changing development costs? Which one lets you fiddle about with settings while development costs increase? Which one needs a better T.V. to get the most out of it?

Hint: You can ask these same question about any of Nintendo's 32 upgrades and get the same answers, with the exception of the New 3ds or N64 Expansion Packs, which specifically caters for higher spec games without Nintendo saying 'Ah yeah, all devo's, you gotta use all (or at least X amount) of the grunt in our new bad boy.' There have been some fuck ups, like Hyrule Warriors running badly on the older hardware, but that's on the dev for not realizing they couldn't get things working properly on the limited tech, not the tech itself.

While a PS4 Pro might be 'cheap' for you, does it help lower costs of development? Does it hold them constant? No, it does the bloody opposite. This is the whole point of my cake thing! I get it, the pro does stuff you like. That's cool, that's dandy. Really, it is. But the whole point I'm making is:

1. This is not something that comes freely to the industry as a whole, it takes more time and money for developers to utilise - unlike every Nintendo upgrade, with the exception of the New 3DS which specifically segregates more demanding games as a result.

2. Just because a minority of gamers have purchased pros doesn't suddenly make specific pro development economically viable

Also when I say, the mentality of a pro/scorpio buyer. I'm not specifically singling out you or Jay or any individual interested in one. It's the sort who care more about the frames than the games.


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PostSubject: Re: New consoles from the big three, madness or brilliant? (Now with added Scorpio & Neo!) This the last gen?   Tue 23 May 2017 - 18:01

mas wrote:
I still disagree with the Nintendo praise as they've made 32 mid-gen upgrades and had exclusive games tied to the upgrades to me that is worse thing to do to alienate most of the 3DS install-base with a game like Fire Emblem Warriors that only the New owners can play.

Did they alienate the majority though? I don't think they did because most decided to upgrade to the new system anyway plus as far as I know there's been very few of these N3DS only games.
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PostSubject: Re: New consoles from the big three, madness or brilliant? (Now with added Scorpio & Neo!) This the last gen?   Tue 23 May 2017 - 18:20

The GBA SP isn't but that is one example, the three I'm talking about are Color, DSi and New 3DS which were all upgrades of hardware and segregates games. I forgot about the expansion pak as well which you could include.

Which one needs a better T.V. to get the most out of it? That is true but I take it the other way around it for those you have a better TV and want something to take advantage of it. I think this is what Spencer has also sort of been saying with Scorpio that is for the ones on the cutting edge of technology and have a 4KTV and want something to take advantage of it but don't want to worry about graphics cards and what not.

It's one of the reasons I bought a PS3 at launch as I had a HDTV and only had the 360 that could use it, I wanted HD movies and the PS3 was the best option for a Blu Ray player at the time.

I get it takes more time and more money to make a game run on Pro (Why I don't see anyone using all the POWER! of Scorpio) but no one is making anyone use the options of a Pro and games that have used it have mainly been first party stuff or on PC which like you say have various settings anyway, that you may as well take advantage of the Pro if you can.

Like I said I bought a Pro as it was cheap and I was WOWed by Horizon Zero Dawn in 4K, to me it is making something already pretty prettier like putting a painting in a nice frame or something along those lines.

@Jas I don't know if a lot did, most of did as were the core Nintendo fan base but I would reckon 2DS has sold better then New 3DS. They're aren't many exclusives you are right but they're still are some and you need to get the upgrade to play them.

Where you don't need to get a Pro to play a PS4 game, it in a way it is more like the GBA SP as it added something in that case the backlight but still played the same games better as you could see them.  

All we know Sony's mid-gen upgrade is here and isn't that big of a leap as it is still a PS4 at its core hence why Destiny 2 can't do 60fps on it and MS have what seems like a generational leap with Scorpio to come which could still be anything with what Spencer, Greenberg and Ybarra etc have been saying & showing like this official shirt.

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PostSubject: Re: New consoles from the big three, madness or brilliant? (Now with added Scorpio & Neo!) This the last gen?   Tue 23 May 2017 - 18:35

mas wrote:
@Jas I don't know if a lot did, most of did as were the core Nintendo fan base but I would reckon 2DS has sold better then New 3DS. They're aren't many exclusives you are right but they're still are some and you need to get the upgrade to play them.

Where you don't need to get a Pro to play a PS4 game, it in a way it is more like the GBA SP as it added something in that case the backlight but still played the same games better as you could see them.  

C'mon you really are making a mountain out of a molehill here. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: New consoles from the big three, madness or brilliant? (Now with added Scorpio & Neo!) This the last gen?   Tue 23 May 2017 - 19:22

Mas you cited '32' mid-gen updates from Nintendo as being a problem earlier, now you're saying only 3 are problematic. That's not even 10% of your original figure. I also didn't give one example: Hint, See Prior Hint. Of the examples you just cited, how is the Colour not a new console? Like really, it's a new console, come on son, there's a huge difference between it and the GB or GB Pocket.

The DSi, didn't even know it had exclusives tbh. But it falls into the exact same category as the new 3ds, it's not forcing devs to use the power/features, it's fully 'backwards compatible,' as it were.

You say, oh well Sony ain't forcing them to do Pro shit. Ok, hang with me here... compare the cost benefit analysis a AAA company has to go through with a New 3ds game versus a PS4 game with Pro functionality.

What's our cost and what's our market? - The New 3ds: fixed platform, easy enough to estimate sales, if not of the hardware then of its exclusive software. Probably fairly easy to work out budgets.

The PS4 & Pro: Easy to calculate numbers in circulation? Yes. Easy to calculate how much we stand to make on Pro upgrades? NO. Should we do em? Well we'd look bad if we didn't don't ya think? Ok, we'll do em. How well should we do em? We need to do them at least as well as this other dev or we'll look stupid boss. Ok, who are we up against? Well you know, Square, EA, UBI......

Now stop and think about THQ and Midway. Yes calm down, they're not really in the biz anymore, not like they were anyway. Would you agree they were B-movie like companies, not quite AAA publishers but they'd make decent shit in terms of overall quality? Yeah, I would, nothing special from either but decent games. Do you think publishers like that could work pro stuff well? No, they weren't about the graphics and shit, a pro ain't benefiting them they just made solid games. Do you think this'll annoy people with pros? I reckon it probably will, even though it's not the dev's fault that performing a cost benefit analysis is now that much more difficult for them and they cannot know what the effects of pro development will be with certainty. Except... Don't you also think it's fair for a pro user to expect pro support having shelled out on this upgrade, at least for games that try to imitate the big ones?

Now think about Konami. Yes yes, you hate them, calm down. How often have we heard about them complain about dev cycle expenses and profits? Do you want Konami to stop making games? No you don't, no one does, and it's not just Konami that bring this stuff up. We don't want people losing jobs full stop. But do you think these extra bells and whistles for publishers to compete over so they can get a good rub from websites like Digital Foundry are going to suit those accountants conscious of the bottom line? No, right?

I mean, i bloody don't and this is the problem with the pro. Either it gets used and it increases dev costs, potentially leading to more publishers going the way of yer THQ's in the long run, edged out by unsustainable costs. Or they don't use Pro features and people get stuck with a box that's not doing anything the base model does beyond first party games.

Do you know what systems will never be a part of that problem? Nintendo ones, because the New 3ds locks down those games that want all dat power.

When I think about these mid-gen upgrades, which only offer more power while also not having separated games from the base model. What that represents to me is everything wrong with video game marketing. Yes, yes. Power is important, I'm not going back to my PS1. But I give much more of a toss about a greater variety of games being made from AAA, to B-tier, to indie, and costs being lowered for consumers and developers. The Pro is the absolute antithesis of that, it's literally there to push developers into making their games look even prettier, get more screenshots online or play time in big PC World stores while pushing Sony's massive whatever tellies.

That's not free, that's not even cheap.

There's a real cost to both consumers and developers when a dev chooses not to use pro functionality. It makes the pro itself redundant, while also making that dev seem lazy.

There's also a real cost to consumers when a dev does choose to use pro functionality. It increases dev costs, while also inflating the costs of the industry as a whole such that people who don't have pros will have more expensive games in the long run, or, the price of games stays the same while sales don't increase leading to reduced profitability - and hey, don't you know, off goes this publisher.

Now compare that to the New 3ds: If a game uses it's full power, cool. I paid for that and the old model ain't suffering. If it doesn't, well you know that's cool mine still probably loads faster and I've got a nicer screen anyway. Yeah, I'd rather have more grunt but I know there are still exclusives I can get elsewhere. But then, that's another difference isn't it. All Nintendo upgrades, excluding expansion packs, have made changes to screens/format of the device itself.

Bottom line, the only company the pro benefits is Sony because they get a big box designed to make their big tellies make the big pictures look more biggerer.
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PostSubject: Re: New consoles from the big three, madness or brilliant? (Now with added Scorpio & Neo!) This the last gen?   Tue 23 May 2017 - 19:37

[/thread]

I mean, Muss' first post on this page should have been [/thread], then his second should have been [/thread], so I'm not sure where we are now. Thread Limbo or something.
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PostSubject: Re: New consoles from the big three, madness or brilliant? (Now with added Scorpio & Neo!) This the last gen?   Tue 23 May 2017 - 19:40

I should make clear, I don't hate anyone for owning or wanting a Pro/Scorpio or whatever. There's nothing wrong with wanting more grunt and all that. It's arguments from, well there's no cost to this, it's optional, Nintendo did something vaguely similar even though actually when you think about it no not at all, that I can't be doing with.

I hope you have a good session of Overwatch on your tv with your pro Mas, I really do.
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PostSubject: Re: New consoles from the big three, madness or brilliant? (Now with added Scorpio & Neo!) This the last gen?   Tue 23 May 2017 - 21:58

The 32 should have been 3 that was a typing mistake by me and I would have agreed with the Color is its own thing but Nintendo themselves don't, they count it as part of the GameBoy.

Sorry Balla this is not what I wanted from the thread as I wanted to talk the possibility of a Pro+ and what it could do but that now due to Destiny 2 info being wrong also is likely wrong and the whole PS5 next year being a bit daft.

When I posted that news along with the Scorpio news we have been hearing and would like to get you guys thoughts on it all.

Where it has turned out now about 4K then PC gaming etc.

Me and Muss we have to have to agree to disagree as I see alienating the audience with a New 3DS and the possibility of games made with all the POWER! of Scorpio which may cause problems getting the Xbox One version running properly, more of a issue then the PS4 Pro.

Also the thing as well in Pro case is it's a mid-gen upgrade we know PS5 will come and we know even before Pro that PS5 likely would have 4K anyway as that is what the top graphics cards have etc.

Devs cost will go up as they always with continuing tech upgrades be it a Pro, Scorpio, PS5 down the road or that new graphics card. We've talked about this with Spencer saying Single Player games are irrelevant, something I don't know what it is to even it all out.

For now I enjoy the games I'm playing on PS4, be it Overwatch which doesn't even use the Pro but I still enjoy playing it and if playing Horizon Zero Dawn it looks better it then great it won't change the game that I still get to play.  

Which brings me back to my painting, Horizon Zero Dawn is the painting and 4k is that nice frame for it, well that's how I look at it.

I know I'll be one of the firsts as well to get a 8KTV, it just how I am Muss said he what got a HD screen 10 years after I did for instance (I'm interested how you played a PS3 not on a HDTV) but I'm always a early adopter of tech, that's just how I am which does shock people why I'm not a PC Gamer.
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PostSubject: Re: New consoles from the big three, madness or brilliant? (Now with added Scorpio & Neo!) This the last gen?   Wed 24 May 2017 - 9:58

I thought the GBA SP was merely a design change. Sure it had a backlight, but it didn't improve performance did it?

Wasn't the Xbox One S the equivalent of the PS4 Pro?

Man I'm so confused and I'm a f****** gamer. The Scorpio intrigues me, but Xbox owners want games surely? Not a £500+ console. PS4 gamers are happy. PC gamers are already specced up. I'm not even sure who they are aiming this at.
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PostSubject: Re: New consoles from the big three, madness or brilliant? (Now with added Scorpio & Neo!) This the last gen?   Wed 24 May 2017 - 10:09

Yeah I would say the GBA SP was a design change with a backlight not a upgrade, I'm not sure we started talking about it.

Xbox One S is a slim Xbox One with a UHD drive and supports HDR along with 4K video etc not gaming. The PS4 Slim foes this minus the UHD drive.

PS4 Pro is a upgraded PS4 which supports 4k gaming along with things like better resolution, framerates, textures etc even when not played on a 4KTV.

Scorpio is basically the Xbox One version of Pro but blows it out of the water with specs but Pro is £350 and Scorpio is likely £500, so you get what you pay for.

I don't know if Xbox One gamers want games as in first party as they don't sell well which is why I believe Spencer has said what he has about Single Player games, Scalebound cancellation (might be coming back from a MS owned team), no deals anymore etc and lot of the Xbox One owners I know also don't seem care to much about them either and even a recent survey as well from MS seems to imply that as well.

I know MS aren't partnered with Destiny 2 but if they come out and go it's native 4K 60fps on Scorpio that will be a big deal for some, where on Pro it's checkerboard (I believe) 4k and 30fps.
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PostSubject: Re: New consoles from the big three, madness or brilliant? (Now with added Scorpio & Neo!) This the last gen?   Wed 24 May 2017 - 10:49

The problem with the Destiny model is that all the Destiny gamers I've come across, JUST play Destiny. They aren't much different to Warcraft gamers.
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PostSubject: Re: New consoles from the big three, madness or brilliant? (Now with added Scorpio & Neo!) This the last gen?   Wed 24 May 2017 - 10:54

Sure but that is the really is the main selling point of Scorpio and MS will go if you want high fidelity gaming then Scorpio is the best place to play.
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PostSubject: Re: New consoles from the big three, madness or brilliant? (Now with added Scorpio & Neo!) This the last gen?   Wed 24 May 2017 - 14:29

My TV was a gift many Christmas' ago. It had hdmi support but a channel like BBC HD wouldn't improve it's quality over standard BBC. It was a TV between HD and analogue, perfectly fine for gaming, still adequate today even though I've no use for it because I no longer watch TV.

Fun Fact: Overwatch has pro support, it's just limited to UI and menu resolution. This is an important patch because screens that run in higher native resolutions tend to make text very small (or totally unreadable) without proper scaling. That's what the patch addresses.

Can you see the irony of your unawareness about the patch though? There's a difference between it's pro support and Tomb Raider, but they both still have them. Yet you're totally unaware about Overwatch's. Although you might personally have never been upset by the "lack" of pro support, can you not see just how murky the water is as to what the pro actually does on a game to game basis?

I'm going to make this my last post on the matter, but I'm 100% disagreeing to agree to disagree with you.
Because [Enough walls of text, I'm hiding this one]:
 
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PostSubject: Re: New consoles from the big three, madness or brilliant? (Now with added Scorpio & Neo!) This the last gen?   Wed 24 May 2017 - 15:20

I did know that about Overwatch thanks to Digital Foundry but didn't want to go into UI's etc being improved and even more things to bring up and talk about.

Sorry about my write up if it was hard to follow or I made a mistake like the 32 instead of 3.

I did over simplify it with game development for sure as like you say we can have Super Meat Boy or a AAA title like a Destiny 2.

If what you're saying about these upgrades is how you feel it's how you feel, I can't change that like I can't either. If companies want to continue doing it be it Sony, MS, Nintendo, Apple or whoever and think they have a audience then they will.

I enjoy my £350 Pro (GameSpot built a rig to simliar spec and cost $630), if your PC somehow cost less 2 years ago and is better then that's great, we like different things I like I can go into ASDA pick up a Pro and have 4K gaming, netflix etc. You may enjoy building a PC that I don't know but that's not for me.

I wanted to draw a line under this when I replied to Balla that we get posts like gJones and you talking about that shirt being ridiculous.

I don't know if those are good specs or not for instance and something someone like you could enlighten me on, DF seem to be getting rather excited about it (they did have the first hands on, though) and it might be only £500 for all that.

Like what does all that POWER! costs if I built it (quick google and on techrader it comes to £995) and if £500 is a good price comparison.
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PostSubject: Re: New consoles from the big three, madness or brilliant? (Now with added Scorpio & Neo!) This the last gen?   Wed 24 May 2017 - 19:08

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PostSubject: Re: New consoles from the big three, madness or brilliant? (Now with added Scorpio & Neo!) This the last gen?   Thu 25 May 2017 - 9:41

I'm just going ignore Balla for a second.

One other thing with the Scorpio and not sure what you think Muss or anyone else, we can agree the PS4 Pro is a upgrade be it daft or not and is the 1.5 version of PS4.

With Scorpio it seems that as well but with MS saying they don't have /want genartions anymore and on the right up for Scorpio it's beyond generations and both backwards & forwards compatible.

Is your opinion different on it as you say it's a Pro turned up to eleven but is that because it's sort of a new console but not at the same time.
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PostSubject: Re: New consoles from the big three, madness or brilliant? (Now with added Scorpio & Neo!) This the last gen?   Thu 25 May 2017 - 11:57

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PostSubject: Re: New consoles from the big three, madness or brilliant? (Now with added Scorpio & Neo!) This the last gen?   Thu 25 May 2017 - 19:53

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PostSubject: Re: New consoles from the big three, madness or brilliant? (Now with added Scorpio & Neo!) This the last gen?   Thu 25 May 2017 - 20:39

I've been avoiding this thread like the plague because I cannot imagine a subject I care about less than 4K resolution, or mid-generation upgrades, or any of this bollocks. Still, I've heard bits from people and after making a little joke the subject has been dragged into threads where it isn't welcome so I've come and had a look.

Bloody hell.

Here are some issues I've picked up on, besides the usual way Masofdas, in this thread and in plenty of other heated discussions, says something like "I agree with you but" or "I see what you're saying but" and then goes on to repeat some argument he already made and prove that he definitely doesn't understand what was just said.

  1. People want a frame counter on Xbox
  2. Various demands about PC-like settings, or Pro support, or this or that thing as standard.
  3. Mas asserts that 4K is, or is becoming, the standard.



  1. Some people want a frame counter on XBox Scorpio, yes, but not loads. You can find people to support any fringe opinion or demand, that doesn't make it the norm or mean it is a necessity to obey their demands. Here's a fun fact: If you google "frame counter on xbox" you get about 441,000 results, whereas if you google "fart on my face", you get about 2,510,000 results. If Phil Spencer really wants to give the people what they want, he'd best start spooning down some Heinz.

  2. Muss has made this point a lot, but everything from 4K support, to sliding settings, to multi-console support is costly. Games development is already critically expensive at the AAA level and this is stifling creativity. How many times did we have the "singleplayer is irrelevant" debate before you became obsessed with 4k instead? Mas is one of the biggest proponents of a story campaign in fighting games, yet he's the biggest fan on GNamer of these costly gizmos that are making it too prohibitively expensive to put content on a disk that doesn't drive players to microtransactions.

  3. 4K is not standard, and it won't be any time soon. Not even close, bud, by a long shot.
    My television is a 39-inch Technika model that just about manages 1080p. It doesn't have a DVD player, let alone Blu-Ray or built-in streaming. Buying it involved budgeting, timing it to coincide with my double staff discount, and still taking a gamble on top of that. It was an extravagant, costly purchase that I definitely didn't need. The 30-incher I bought when the Wii U was on the way, my first ever HD TV, was perfectly viable.

    I know people who are still using CRTs, little grey cubes in the corner of the room. Televisions, to most people, are not 3-or-4 hundred pound affairs, they can't be bought every time a new "big thing" is announced and they sure as hell aren't a necessity. Televisions are a luxury, they are entertainment, and times are tough.

    I'm not even at the worst end of the spectrum. Sure, I work full-time and still struggle to make rent, but at least I don't have any dependants. If I'd gotten into trouble after blowing money on a TV, it would just be missing breakfast and eating super-noodles for dinner until payday, not my kids. I've had months where an unexpected bill has left me utterly skint and I've had no choice but to flog a game I'm not actually done with to CEX just so I can afford food, or to get a family member a birthday present, or go and see a lassie.

    I'm not saying you're not allowed to have a big ol' 4K TV, and a PS4 Pro, and buy multiple XBox Ones as the mood takes you, and buy every game that comes out and play it for ten minutes before moving on, or any of it. But please acknowledge that you are very privileged to be able to do so. I'm acutely aware of the fact I have food every day, clean clothes and a bed, and play the newest Nintendo games and how incredibly lucky that makes me.

    People are starving outside your door. People are missing meals to save up and get any kind of TV at all so their kids don't feel weird at school. People are struggling to find jobs, or working all the time and still coming in below the poverty line, game production is so expensive that jobs are being lost already, maybe pushing to move as soon as possible up to a resolution that can only be noticed when its side-by-side with a poorer one shouldn't be top priority?

    Just . . . check your privilege, man. And chill out. 4k ain't all that, I bet Life is Strange 2 won't be in 4k and you know we're both gonna love that.
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PostSubject: Re: New consoles from the big three, madness or brilliant? (Now with added Scorpio & Neo!) This the last gen?   Thu 25 May 2017 - 20:58

I may spoke or miss wrote a few things by your 3 points Drunka.

On the number 2, I've not demanded or think Pro or what not support should be standard, just that it's a nice extra to have.

3. I said I think it will become the standard, I'm not saying this year or next but it be something PS5 etc will just have if people want it going forward.

We did sort of touch on this on Pod of War and EofGiz brought up about Scorpio that if you're making a PC game then you're likely able to move the settings to suit each version as these consoles are now basically PCs and as a dev how he sees it.

I've said twice now let's draw a line under this, and talk about the likes of the Scorpio announcement in 2 or so weeks.

I don't know what you want me to do with privilege thing though, I give to charities monthly for instance, save my money to buy £1200 TVs that I go to work for.

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PostSubject: Re: New consoles from the big three, madness or brilliant? (Now with added Scorpio & Neo!) This the last gen?   Thu 25 May 2017 - 21:02

masofdas wrote:
I've said twice now let's draw a line under this, and talk about the likes of the Scorpio announcement in 2 or so weeks.

You can't just bring something up then decide it's time to move on when you notice people disagreeing with you.
Quote :
I don't know what you want me to do with privilege thing though, I give to charities monthly for instance, save my money to buy £1200 TVs that I go to work for.

Yeah, that's good, it's just when you go around making claims about "this is standard" or "most people want/ have this" without noticing you're speaking about a very small bubble of people who can afford top-of-the-line stuff. Like you literally just did.
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PostSubject: Re: New consoles from the big three, madness or brilliant? (Now with added Scorpio & Neo!) This the last gen?   Thu 25 May 2017 - 21:13

What started it though Drunka was me asking basically what you think of the PS5 or a Pro+ next year, both daft right but could see this for a Pro+.

Then we started on about 4K then PC and so on. Again I never said this is standard or everyone wants it, I've even said it's a small group of enthusiasts like me, who do at the moment.
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PostSubject: Re: New consoles from the big three, madness or brilliant? (Now with added Scorpio & Neo!) This the last gen?   Thu 25 May 2017 - 21:33

“History is a set of lies agreed upon.”
― Napoléon Bonaparte
masofdas wrote:
Again I never said this is standard or everyone wants it, I've even said it's a small group of enthusiasts like me, who do at the moment.
Apart from here
masofdas wrote:
4K is just there.
here
masofdas wrote:
numerous companies have 4K things that I can see it just becoming the thing.
here
masofdas wrote:
By then 4k may have become of a standard as well.
and here.
masofdas wrote:
Like I've said about new TVs, nearly all of them are 4K now

Can you tell I'm bored? Let's draw a line under this and play Mario Kart Wink
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