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 A Switch in Time (General Switch Chat II)

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JayMoyles
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PostSubject: Re: A Switch in Time (General Switch Chat II)   Wed 10 May 2017 - 14:46

Honestly, I'd enjoy a Majora's Mask version of BotW - an alternate story using the same engine. They've made something properly special here and it would be a shame to see it only used for one game.
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PostSubject: Re: A Switch in Time (General Switch Chat II)   Wed 10 May 2017 - 15:56

I think they can do some very weird and clever and impressive things taking the BOTW engine and doing something smaller and cleverer.
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PostSubject: Re: A Switch in Time (General Switch Chat II)   Wed 10 May 2017 - 19:08

Make a proper Zelda game Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: A Switch in Time (General Switch Chat II)   Wed 10 May 2017 - 19:42

Whatever I may think about Mas' views on BotW...



...I actually wouldn't mind seeing them go back to the old with-dungeons structure in a smaller world the next time around.  Especially if it used the BotW engine.  

They're almost certainly not going to improve on BotW, so they may as well just go for different to it.
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PostSubject: Re: A Switch in Time (General Switch Chat II)   Wed 10 May 2017 - 19:50

2D Zelda. A fantastic and gigantic 2D Zelda. Grin
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PostSubject: Re: A Switch in Time (General Switch Chat II)   Wed 10 May 2017 - 20:11

  • We've had a million traditional Zeldas already, they still exist.
  • Breath of the Wild captures all the thematic points of the series while updating the formula.
  • Even in the realm of almighty sales, Breath of the Wild got dicks wigglin' the world over, so they'd be fools to not capitalise.
  • I'm not saying "do the same thing again", but they built a phenomenal open world system and could use that to do ingenious things- maybe even with some more traditional dungeons.
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PostSubject: Re: A Switch in Time (General Switch Chat II)   Wed 10 May 2017 - 20:23

I've already played those Zeldas and BotW won't sell as much as Twilight Princess due to Single Player games being irrelevant.


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PostSubject: Re: A Switch in Time (General Switch Chat II)   Wed 10 May 2017 - 20:28

Singleplayer is irrelevant wrote:
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PostSubject: Re: A Switch in Time (General Switch Chat II)   Wed 10 May 2017 - 20:43

masofdas wrote:
I've already played those Zeldas and BotW won't sell as much as Twilight Princess due to Single Player games being irrelevant.

There's something to be said for trying to move the medium forward, though, I would say. I'm told that Breath Of The Wild is how open world games should always have been; that's got to be worth something. Further, it seems to me that there's only one person in the industry saying "single player games are irrelevant" (please correct me if I'm wrong), so that feels like an opinion worth ignoring.

And! When I say I want a 2D Zelda... I always want a 2D Zelda. It's my default setting, particularly after the lovely A Link Between Worlds and the fabulous experiment that was Tri Force Heroes (your mileage has already varied on that one) - I'm keen to see what's next for that particular style of the series.
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PostSubject: Re: A Switch in Time (General Switch Chat II)   Wed 10 May 2017 - 20:57

Drunkalilly wrote:
We've had a million traditional Zeldas already, they still exist.

And all of them were different and fell down (only slightly in most cases!) in different ways.

OoT's Hyrule Field was large and empty, and it didn't have the Spinner or the Double Clawshots.
MM made several YMMV edits to the formula, including the time cycle and only having four dungeons, and it didn't have the Spinner or the Double Clawshots.
WW had the largely empty expanse of the great sea and the cut dungeons, and it didn't have the Spinner or the Double Clawshots.
TP was ugly as sin, and it didn't make sufficient use of the Spinner or the Double Clawshots.
SS cut out the overworld, and it didn't have the Spinner.

BotW is my favourite game ever.  I would by no means be averse to more of the same.  But since OoT and TP also make my top ten, neither would I be averse to them continuing to tinker with the traditional formula, possibly using the BotW engine.  I disagree completely with people who think that you're restricted in game quality by a linear story progression and a larger set of items, MM did exactly that and came up with something just as creative as BotW (if not as good).  

As for a 2D Zelda, I definitely want that to happen (to complete my dream of getting home console and handheld libraries on one machine), and ALBW was 'da bomb' for certain; but with a dimension stripped away they'll always be more limited in the feeling of a living, breathing, explorable world to me.  Always great, never fantastic.  Always 9/10, never 10.  My opinion, natch.

Although obviously the best Zelda would be a BotW sequel with the Spinner and the Double Clawshots.
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PostSubject: Re: A Switch in Time (General Switch Chat II)   Wed 10 May 2017 - 21:02

I was making a bit of a joke about Single Player games but I do think BotW will sell less then Twilight Princess though.

I'm not big into open world games that I'm not sure what BotW does so great with it.
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PostSubject: Re: A Switch in Time (General Switch Chat II)   Wed 10 May 2017 - 22:33

ZeroJones wrote:
2D Zelda. A fantastic and gigantic 2D Zelda. Grin

I'd be all for seeing this, the worry would be that it would be very difficult for it's mechanics to be as playful as the ones in BotW but saying that they did have a 2d build of the original Zelda running to test out stuff for BotW.
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PostSubject: Re: A Switch in Time (General Switch Chat II)   Thu 11 May 2017 - 18:03

I know it isn't really on the subject but I said in jokey way about Single Player games being irrelevant and Zero you pointed out only one man is saying that.

He might be the only one saying it but now Mass Effect is going on hiatus and the Bioware team behind it is being shrunk, IO who developed Hitman last year is now up for sale after the game underperformed, I saw a tweet about other games such as Deus Ex and Dishonored are also on hiatus due to underperforming.

I worry for Arkane as I can't see Prey doing much.
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PostSubject: Re: A Switch in Time (General Switch Chat II)   Thu 11 May 2017 - 18:17

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PostSubject: Re: A Switch in Time (General Switch Chat II)   Thu 11 May 2017 - 18:20

Thought you of all people who was a fan of Hitman last year, would want to know this news.
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PostSubject: Re: A Switch in Time (General Switch Chat II)   Thu 11 May 2017 - 19:05

Sorry to break it to you but I seen that news at about 8 o'clock this morning.
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PostSubject: Re: A Switch in Time (General Switch Chat II)   Thu 11 May 2017 - 19:19

RIGHT HERE ARE SOME FACTS LISTEN UP ESPECIALLY YOU PING PONG PENG MAN.

There is an issue and the issue is this: videogame development has become too expensive. The difference between producing
this:
 
and producing
this:
 
is like the difference between producing an episode of Mrs Brown's Boys and producing the Battle of the Bastards from Game of Thrones. We're talking hundreds of millions of dollars to make a AAA Game in 2017.

This means a game needs to make BANK to recoup costs, and singleplayer games can sell to one person, one time. He might then lend it to his friends, or people might be willing to wait until it gets cheaper. With multiplayer games, they can sell you the game, then the maps, then the costumes, then skill points, then subscriptions. Plus, you and your friends all want to buy individual copies on day one. This goes back to what I said before when you first brought up Phil Spencer's comment: financially yes, artistically no.

So what's the solution? The same thing I've been saying for ages. AAA Gaming is stagnant, barring the odd cool exception, and indie games are where it's at for narrative experiences and innovation.

There's one other factor: The Nintendo Switch. Nintendo have wisely stopped pushing their hardware at around the PS360 level -- ie the last time game development was cost effective. Everyone who was saying Nintendo should have just made their own PS4/ XBOXONE equivalent needs to take a look at the budgets of big games. There is no way Nintendo could afford to throw Uncharted 4 money at Breath of the Wild. They've taken a smarter route, with a machine that can still producing excellent modern games with just a little bit of finesse and artistry, but which also courts smaller titles and indie devs with its portability and lesser requirements.

Singleplayer games are not irrelevant. The PS4 and XBox One are irrelevant. They can be a machine for Overwatch and Rocket League of an evening, but they are not where the medium as an art form is going to move forwards.
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PostSubject: Re: A Switch in Time (General Switch Chat II)   Thu 11 May 2017 - 19:53

I know this like most of us (I'm a SEGA fan remember), same can go for other mediums.

I've not once said I think they are, I barely play Multi Player games and I love Single Player games but doesn't mean I can't see where Spencer is coming from and sure he's talking business but at the end of the day he's running a business.

Sure I may not like we aren't getting Scalebound for what might be business reason and Crackdown 3 will be all about the online MP but if that what keeps Xbox making money and in industry, then that's great but just isn't for me.

I like most of us I don't want to see IO whom seem to be a talented team possibly lose their jobs for instance and why I worry for Arkane.

I disagree PS4 and XBox One are irrelevant, sure games on them like COD: WWII isn't going to push the art form and that be the best selling game of the year but that's not the consoles problem if that makes the big bucks, what will push the art form be it on PS4, ONE, PC, Switch is creative minds sure that be indies 9/10 but like you said odd cool exception will come.


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PostSubject: Re: A Switch in Time (General Switch Chat II)   Thu 11 May 2017 - 19:56

If, 100 years from now, a student is studying the history of games the way they might study literature or cinema now, the games they look at from this period will probably not be AAA releases. Like you said, with maybe a 1 in 10 exception.
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PostSubject: Re: A Switch in Time (General Switch Chat II)   Thu 11 May 2017 - 20:00

Exactly and not sure they need to be, is that person studying literature really going to look back at Twilight or something else that is/was popular but rather crap and meaningless.

The issue seems to be games making the money back of development costs and I'm fine if games go up in price, they've never been so cheap and yet cost more then any other time to make.

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PostSubject: Re: A Switch in Time (General Switch Chat II)   Thu 11 May 2017 - 20:13

So how about that Switch eh? I like it so much I got myself one of those Hori charge & play stands. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: A Switch in Time (General Switch Chat II)   Thu 11 May 2017 - 20:18

Yeah, I quite liked mine until Donkey Kong pipped me at the line one time too many so I heffed it at a wall.
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PostSubject: Re: A Switch in Time (General Switch Chat II)   Thu 11 May 2017 - 20:23

Drunkalilly wrote:
Yeah, I quite liked mine until Donkey Kong pipped me at the line one time too many so I heffed it at a wall.

At least you didn't kill it with gravy. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: A Switch in Time (General Switch Chat II)   Thu 11 May 2017 - 20:36

The_Jaster wrote:
So how about that Switch eh? I like it so much I got myself one of those Hori charge & play stands. Smile

It's crap mate, only plays baby games for babies. Go buy a Vita, the handheld for real men.
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PostSubject: Re: A Switch in Time (General Switch Chat II)   Thu 11 May 2017 - 20:51

Balladeer wrote:
The_Jaster wrote:
So how about that Switch eh? I like it so much I got myself one of those Hori charge & play stands. Smile

It's crap mate, only plays baby games for babies.  Go buy a Vita, the handheld for real men.

I already traded it all in about 20 minutes ago, Vita 2? What a load of pish!
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