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 Hollow Knight - A Bugger of a Metroidvania

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JayMoyles
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PostSubject: Re: Hollow Knight - A Bugger of a Metroidvania   28/07/18, 11:13 pm

Ah. I went there stupidly early. I had the Dream Nail before I'd even reached the Fungal Wastes.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollow Knight - A Bugger of a Metroidvania   31/07/18, 09:47 pm

I've been hoovering up mini-bosses... which, to be honest, for much of my playtime has meant 'been hoovered up by mini-bosses'. However, I now have a stage 3 nail and a lovely noxious cloud of death following me around, so managed to destroy the chap above the Crystal Peaks bench and - finally! - the git behind the Elegant Key door. Dance

Now for the big sewer boss... Pale
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PostSubject: Re: Hollow Knight - A Bugger of a Metroidvania   01/08/18, 04:14 pm

I honestly don't know which sewer boss you're on about! Confused
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PostSubject: Re: Hollow Knight - A Bugger of a Metroidvania   01/08/18, 07:27 pm

Fuck this horrible bastard:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Hollow Knight - A Bugger of a Metroidvania   01/08/18, 08:05 pm

You're not the first person I've heard saying that they found that fight tricky, but I found it a walk in the park! Maybe my charm setup meshed well with the fight or something...
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PostSubject: Re: Hollow Knight - A Bugger of a Metroidvania   01/08/18, 08:20 pm

Now I can kill those with one hit, I did it first time. Eh!
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PostSubject: Re: Hollow Knight - A Bugger of a Metroidvania   01/08/18, 08:47 pm

Yeah that gave me trouble too but was easy once I got the nail upgraded.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollow Knight - A Bugger of a Metroidvania   01/08/18, 09:13 pm

I think I got my win through the Quick Slash charm, which is a must have I'd say across the whole game.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollow Knight - A Bugger of a Metroidvania   01/08/18, 09:17 pm

City of Tears - the multiboss:
 

Also, another boss showing what a foul move it is to put the save point so far from the arena. Those minutes-and-halves add up!
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PostSubject: Re: Hollow Knight - A Bugger of a Metroidvania   01/08/18, 09:20 pm

A trick to that boss:
 

That boss in question gave me horrific flashbacks to a Dark Souls boss where strategy seemed to go out the window in favour of a DPS race. Bleh, not a fun fight, that one.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollow Knight - A Bugger of a Metroidvania   01/08/18, 09:22 pm

Yes, I did!

...or rather, the strategy guide I looked at in desperation did for me. Embarrassed
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PostSubject: Re: Hollow Knight - A Bugger of a Metroidvania   01/08/18, 10:19 pm

I'm guessing that's you done at least one of the big objectives now, then?
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PostSubject: Re: Hollow Knight - A Bugger of a Metroidvania   02/08/18, 06:50 pm

If you mean...

Spoiler:
 

I also have two special sword nail moves though.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollow Knight - A Bugger of a Metroidvania   02/08/18, 09:05 pm

It took me ages to get more than one nail move, so good job finding two! I'm assuming it was in Kingdom's Edge and the Howling Cliffs, yeah?
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PostSubject: Re: Hollow Knight - A Bugger of a Metroidvania   02/08/18, 09:08 pm

Spoiler:
 

If you Dream Nail the first one he tells you that his mate's in the second area, which I think I've now cleared up. Currently exploring an area of similar aesthetic...
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PostSubject: Re: Hollow Knight - A Bugger of a Metroidvania   02/08/18, 10:19 pm

All I have to say about Hollow Knight is it pains me that the wonderfully jolly and innovative Yoku's Island Express slipped into the shadows around the same time HK rocketed up to popularity...but that's just how the attention economy works, right?


I've yet to play HK, but they are both solid games. I did, however, opt to play Yoku if only because I've played dozens of Metroidvanias and the impression I got was that outside of its visual design, HK brings few new ideas of its own to the table. So I could see myself liking it, but not falling in love with it. Bit like how Celeste didn't really make an impact on me having played through VVVVVV, Super Meat Boy and The End Is Nigh previously.

Would I be wrong?
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PostSubject: Re: Hollow Knight - A Bugger of a Metroidvania   03/08/18, 08:47 am

If you're talking just the normal Metroidvania mechanics then probably not? That doesn't mean the game lacks any identity of it's own though, in fact one of the things it's best at compared to most in the genre is not only having a world that's fun to explore but filling that world with characters that I've found to be genuinely interesting and want to know more about.

*mild spoiler alert*

Spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Hollow Knight - A Bugger of a Metroidvania   03/08/18, 10:41 am

Hollow Knight (and Celeste) aren't really innovative so much as definitive. I can understand the appeal of new experiences, but if you judge them against their peers then they are outstanding games.

What I mean is that if you had played Celeste before those other games I reckon the roles would be reversed, but even more so, as Celeste is the peak of the genre imo.

Likewise Hollow Knight is the best metroidvania I've played - even if the core experience isn't new.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollow Knight - A Bugger of a Metroidvania   03/08/18, 09:05 pm

fronkhead wrote:
Bit like how Celeste didn't really make an impact on me having played through VVVVVV, Super Meat Boy and The End Is Nigh previously.



Apart from the 'best Metroidvania' bit, I absolutely agree with O_R.  Not everything has to re-invent the wheel: sometimes a good old-fashioned round thing with a tyre on will do, especially if it's designed really really well.

That said, it absolutely is a crime that Yoku flew under the radar, and I do intend to get back to it. Apart from anything else it'd be a good antidote to HK, being about 10000x more cheerful. It's just... sometimes things become staples for a reason. Regular left-to-right easily controllable movement is one of those things.

Ghost Warriors:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Hollow Knight - A Bugger of a Metroidvania   05/08/18, 04:03 pm

OrangeRakoon wrote:
Hollow Knight (and Celeste) aren't really innovative so much as definitive. I can understand the appeal of new experiences, but if you judge them against their peers then they are outstanding games.

This. Thumbs Up!

Hollow Knight nails the joy of exploration unlike any other Metroidvania I've played. There's a real thrill in discovering each new item or area that I've not really felt since playing the original Dark Souls. It's absolutely worth your time.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollow Knight - A Bugger of a Metroidvania   06/08/18, 08:03 pm

The exploration thing is... certainly a point you can make. I've just found myself getting frustrated and using a walkthrough. Still love the game, but you'll get more out of it if you're more patient than I am. I maintain it could've done with more optional signposting, and fewer secret areas hidden behind barely noticeable (if at all) slash-to-break walls.

Anyway, you know what can get absolutely stuffed?

Area:
 

You know what can't?

Secret Area, near the edge:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Hollow Knight - A Bugger of a Metroidvania   06/08/18, 09:04 pm

Secret areas behind breakable walls are a Metroidvania staple. It wouldn't have felt right without some!

I wasn't a huge fan of your first spoilered area either, but that's probably because I felt uncomfortable and generally on edge exploring it, which is likely what the devs were going for anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollow Knight - A Bugger of a Metroidvania   06/08/18, 09:18 pm

Some staples exist because they deserve to; some staples exist because they're a series crutch.  I appreciate that HK doesn't have 'unlock the colour-coded power to remove the colour-coded obstacle', I'm not going to give it a free pass for the walls!

I definitely felt on edge, and maybe I can let the spikes slide for their part in that.  The rest of the design, though?  Boring and irritating in equal measure.

My love for the second area decreased when I lost my first shade of the game. Sulk That's what happens: you get complacent that you've only ever died on boss fights and areas with spikes, and then suddenly you're being ganged up on by a whole bunch of bugs and that's 4k Geo down the drain.  Bah.  So then I set up a warp just outside the boss room... and beat it next try. Hissy fit Mostly my fault, but I still resent them for putting the nearest bench so far away from the boss!
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PostSubject: Re: Hollow Knight - A Bugger of a Metroidvania   06/08/18, 09:23 pm

Balla wrote:
and that's 4k Geo down the drain.

What ye doing walking about with that much geo anyway ya madman.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollow Knight - A Bugger of a Metroidvania   06/08/18, 09:59 pm

It's not like Mirabelle was giving me much interest! I assumed that she'd do a Clock Town Bank, but nope - nothing. So I withdrew it all, spent as much as I could, and... ending up hoarding the rest I suppose. Embarrassed
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