Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex)

Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Thu 27 Jun 2019 - 15:12

Balladeer wrote:: Couple of other suggestions:
- Pineco and Forretress. Pineco looks like Banjo and Kazooie got their hands on a pinecone, and Forretress... just no.

I always liked it for the character of the thing. Wouldn't lose sleep if it stayed or went though.

Quote :: - Aipom, the least cute monkey there has ever been. The smile alone is enough to give me nightmares.

But then we'd lose Ambipom! Best troll for online battles ever!

Quote :: - Qwilfish joins the cavalcade of mediocre fish designs. We'll find worse, but I really don't see what it adds and feel it's taking up space.

Afraid I can't let you do that one. Me and old Qwilly go waaaaaay back. Anyone remember a game called Pokemon Battle Revolution on the Wii? Well, as you might guess I played the entire thing. It was strictly a battle tournament game against NPC's akin to Battle Tower and the like.

Where does MVP Qwilly come into the equation? The final round, Stardust Colloseum. CUE THE MUSIC! One of the most fun challenges in any Pokemon game ever. NPC's with brutal teams, 2 v 2 battles, lots and lots of fun.

Well, it was fun until the final round of it. At that point it was a gauntlet of the games various bosses with godly teams. How godly? They used legendary Pokemon and proper strategies. Final boss was a cheating bastard, Latios, Latias, Ho-Oh, Lugia, Dialga, and Palkia.

Enter the savior, the MVP, Qwilly! I bred that little pal for one thing. See the catch with the final round was anything goes, including cover legendaries! So I decided to open every battle with the most terrifying combo of Pokemon pre-gen 6: Qwillfish and Kyogre. The result?

So yeah, fraid I'm going to have to say no to Qwillfish getting the chop. Adds character, plus has some really fun niches. Many people ignore him, but not me! To many he is barely a meme. To me he is a god among god, the killer of titans!

Quote :: - Finally, if somebody could tell me what lumps of molten useless goop Slugma and Magcargo add to the world I'll be happy to listen, but they're terrible 'Mon with mediocre designs and Magcargo in particular has a typing that can only be reasonably termed, 'a mistake'.

I half want to not agree because the memes about Slugma being able to destroy life on earth are too good, but yeah. End of the day it's Grimer made of lava. Not even Shell Smash can make his evolution usable. Bin.

Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Thu 27 Jun 2019 - 22:07

Balladeer wrote:: - Aipom, the least cute monkey there has ever been. The smile alone is enough to give me nightmares.

You have had a long standing grudge against poor Aipom. Laughing

I think he's a loveable goofball. He's silly and uniquely designed. Good monkey boy, he stays.

Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Sat 29 Jun 2019 - 19:00

Long-standing and deserved thank you very much. Right, we've got the following list to cull from Gen. 2:

Spoiler:

Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) - Page 2 50261bb3fde8332ae683ccb50eb98790d29c793av2_hq

Gen. 3 is probably my favourite gen, but that doesn't mean there isn't a lot of crap to cull. Let's get to it:

- The Wurmple line. Inferior versions of Butterfree and Beedrill that offer nowt extra. We didn't cull Butterfree and Beedrill, so this lot feel like they have to go.
- Glalie. I've got nothing against Snorunt, the little eskimo chappie; or Froslass, who we'll see next gen.; but 'big ice face' is not good Pokémon design and even if it is Cryogonal does it better.
- Volbeat and Illumise. Shoddy single-stage bugs. Volbeat had a debatable competitive presence (all but gone now) that doesn't at all make up for its aesthetics.

Give me your suggestions of what to bin!

Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Sun 30 Jun 2019 - 20:46

I like the Wurmple line - the idea of it turning into a different cocoon form depending on the time of day (if I recall correctly) is a neat idea.

I also like Glalie - its Mega form is suitably horrifying!

There's some guff in Gen III...

Plusle/Minun - I'm not a fan of the Pika clones. They feel somewhat unoriginal as a result.

Skitty/Delcatty - Seems to retread the same ground as Meowth/Persian. There's better cats to come.

Trapinch - I like Flygon and Vibravia, but Trapinch feels very out of place and somewhat redundant.

Gorebyss - I legitimately forgot this Pokémon existed. Huntail is much better out of the two evolutions Clamperl has access to.

Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Mon 1 Jul 2019 - 19:54

JayMoyles wrote:: I also like Glalie - its Mega form is suitably horrifying!

I should say: I'm taking the perspective of Sword and Shield for this, and from what I've heard mechanics such as Megas and Z-Moves aren't making it into the new games. I'd personally cull both of them, but I think they're being culled anyway? Up to you if you want to base your choices on what Megas are available: I'm assuming they'll all go away.

JayMoyles wrote:: Plusle/Minun - I'm not a fan of the Pika clones. They feel somewhat unoriginal as a result.

Natch.

JayMoyles wrote:: Skitty/Delcatty - Seems to retread the same ground as Meowth/Persian. There's better cats to come.

Sorry The Lady: he's right.

JayMoyles wrote:: Trapinch - I like Flygon and Vibravia, but Trapinch feels very out of place and somewhat redundant.

Here's the thing: while I agree with you that Trapinch doesn't seem to 'fit', I like its design and the other two very much feel like second/third forms to me. If there was a replacement lined up then maybe I'd go for it, but there is no creation here: only death.

JayMoyles wrote:: Gorebyss - I legitimately forgot this Pokémon existed. Huntail is much better out of the two evolutions Clamperl has access to.

I disagree a bit! Based solely on design Gorebyss has nothing going for it, that's true. However, its Pokédex entries are really vicious. It goes around sucking Pokémon dry with its tubular mouth like some sort of mermetroid. I much prefer it to Huntail: big dull eel. That said, the whole bunch are reasonably dull and I'd be up for scrapping the entire Clamperl family; but if it stays, so does this hideous beauty.

I have more monsters I'd suggest to scrap, but I'd like to hear from other fine folk first!

Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Wed 3 Jul 2019 - 0:03

To be fair, the main reason I included Gorebyss was because I was looking down the list, spotted it and exclaimed "who the fuck is that?" which felt like a warranted inclusion for the chopping block. I've played Gen III umpteen times too!

Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Wed 3 Jul 2019 - 16:43

I did a big post for Gen 2 in my work emails last week, but I've not got round to posting it. Here it is if anybody's at all interested:

Gen 2 Was Quite Good:

Gen 3's monsters fucking suck, and I will die on that mountain. It would be easier to list the ones to keep and the ones to bin.

Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Wed 3 Jul 2019 - 20:18

Oh boy - yeah, I've already lost interest by Gen 3 - they start to feel like variations on the first 250-odd.

Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Wed 3 Jul 2019 - 23:22

It's definitely the first generation listed in this thread where there were some immediate duffers standing out to me. I do wonder how much of this is nostalgia tinged considering Gen III wasn't a big one for me.

Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Thu 4 Jul 2019 - 11:40

I hate you all. Sulk

Nah I can't deny that Gen. 3 has some stinkers, but it also has some belting designs that I'll defend to the death. Mind you, it's the generation I've played the most of!

(To go back onto Gen. 2 for a moment, I'm going to take Cappa's votes into consideration. That's enough hate to cull Pineco and Forretress, and I agree with Stantler being bobbins so that's out too, but I really like the dumb-as-heck idea behind Girafarig (and its name!) so that stays. Athrun's impassioned defence of Qwilfish saves it, just, and Corsola's already dead.)

But back to Gen. 3: Chimecho anyone?

Also I'd like to throw Meditite and Medicham under the bus, who I've long thought looked like chuffing idiots. Their saving point at the time was being the only Fighting/Psychic types, but a generation later we got Gallade, who even without a broken-as-heck ability is still better.

Can't remember what they look like? Join the club:

Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Mon 8 Jul 2019 - 23:48

Nah, I quite like those three you mentioned. Chimecho is a unique design and is pretty eerie - I'm surprised it's not a Ghost type! They fit perfectly with that ghost mountain area where you get the orbs later on in R/S/E.

I really like the Fighting types introduced in Gen. III - I like the idea of a yoga fighter and it meshes well with the sumos introduced in Gen. III too.

Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Wed 10 Jul 2019 - 19:23

Feels like we should be moving on soon, but we've had literally two people giving their thoughts on Gen. 3 (that weren't just 'they're all bobbins'). Any more for any more? There's a lot to hate here!

Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Wed 10 Jul 2019 - 21:48

I used your picture of the Gen 3 Pokemon and crossed out the ones I thought were pish, but I've lost it. I'd make a list, but I cant find one to delete rubbish ones off of Neutral

Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Wed 10 Jul 2019 - 21:52

Argh!

Sorry to hear. Let me give you a list I've copied from here (they're in order and you can compare them against the pic. above):

Gen. 3 Pokémon:

Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Wed 10 Jul 2019 - 22:08

Cheers!

Good Guys:

The rest can get to Falkirk.

Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Thu 11 Jul 2019 - 13:22

Late to the party on this one.

Gen 1: I like them all but I suppose I never really liked Drowzee and Hypno all that much. I would always try to get an Abra instead. The dream eater and psychothereapy stuff is cool but never really feels like a Pokemon game has ever made the most of it thematically.
Gen 2: Another generation I really like. Probably agree that the Unown's should get out.

Gen 3: Blaziken. Dumbass chicken that's the start point for the fire starters totally losing their cool by their final forms. It's all humanoids from here. We don't get a decent fire stater until Fennekin from here, so all the other fire starters are on my naughty list up until that point. We go from a dragon looking motherfucker, and a big ass flaming shrew, to a bunch of gangly assed, out of proportion, anthromorphs. [Well, the piggy boy isn't gangly but it still looks nope]

Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Thu 11 Jul 2019 - 20:56

Good to have you at our culling party Muss! There's still some beer in the fridge. Or actually that cold brown sludge might be what's left of the Spearow family, I'm not sure.

I definitely have to disagree with you about Blaziken, mind - it remained my favourite starter final form until owl-in-a-hoodie took over from it not so long ago. I think this miiiiiight have been residual Digimon fondness, because Blaziken's basically Garudamon at a more reasonable size, but I have always loved Kung Pow Chicken. I think it's genuinely cool and well-designed, and when the Pokémon Company manage that with a chicken you've got to give them respect for it. (I'll agree with you regarding Prodigy songs later though.) Also I like Drowzee despite being unnerved by it for reasons your mate's podcast has already covered.

Going to tackle a couple of monsters that Cappa dumped on by omission hope of booting them out:

Surskit and Masquerain are shoddy bugs. Surskit could have been interesting if it had stayed Bug/Water upon evolving, but it didn't. We don't need more Bug/Flying types.
Shuppet and Banette are a good idea poorly executed. Creepy puppet Pokémon is okay, but they have mediocre designs and are useless in actual battle.

Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Thu 11 Jul 2019 - 23:53

Muss wrote:: Gen 3: Blaziken. Dumbass chicken that's the start point for the fire starters totally losing their cool by their final forms. It's all humanoids from here. We don't get a decent fire stater until Fennekin from here, so all the other fire starters are on my naughty list up until that point. We go from a dragon looking motherfucker, and a big ass flaming shrew, to a bunch of gangly assed, out of proportion, anthromorphs. [Well, the piggy boy isn't gangly but it still looks nope]

I like Blaziken, but I can definitely see me pointing the finger at some of the later Fire-Fighting types. I don't blame Blaziken - I blame Infernape and Pignite or whatever his name was.

Balladeer wrote:: Surskit and Masquerain are shoddy bugs. Surskit could have been interesting if it had stayed Bug/Water upon evolving, but it didn't. We don't need more Bug/Flying types.
Shuppet and Banette are a good idea poorly executed. Creepy puppet Pokémon is okay, but they have mediocre designs and are useless in actual battle.

Nope, I will defend these guys!

Surskit is a wee cutie and Masquerain is really cool - I don't recall any other Pokémon up to this point having markings on their bodies to act as warnings to other animals. The wings coming together to resemble a big face is a neat idea and plays into its name in a great way.

I've said elsewhere I like the ghosts in Gen. III. I like their designs - they're spooky! I've nothing to add about their battle prowess, but Gen III has a good crop of ghosts and I'll hear nothing bad about them.

Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Sun 14 Jul 2019 - 17:33

Where's Athrun? We need some more negativity up in this thread!

We're going onto the next generation now, but please do keep submitting your thoughts for Gen. 3. I'm going to fire Barboach and Whiscash, Pokémon so dull Cappa drew one as a blue sausage with a face, under the bus as my parting shot.

Current Culling Slate:

For a reportedly lousy generation, that's not a lot going on the scrap heap. (To clarify my process, basically the number of people calling for a monster's deletion has to be at least two more than the number not. The monster needs to be called out though.) You (yes YOU) could change that.

Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) - Page 2 E724018b059610460f3383c6f37a94cd0e67b893r1-920-552v2_uhq

And so to Generation 4 and hooooooooo boy. This is my least favourite generation and I would be up for binning a huge huge amount of these bastards. Let's get started:

CULL THESE:

Phew. Okay, which ones do you not like from gen. 4? Do you agree with many, or any, of mine? Have I missed any awful ones out? (Probably - it's Gen. 4 after all.)

Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Mon 15 Jul 2019 - 21:49

Huh. I have no game-related opinions on them. Definitely keep the starters and their evolutions (Piplup is wonderful). And keep Pachirisu.

Right - get rid of the one that's 2 cherries - any Pokémon that looks like the artist drew round a real world object, and couldn't work out how to deal with the perspective afterwards, should go. Agree with Happiny as well - that don't look wholesome.

Ah, the others are OK - better than Gen 3's.

Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Mon 15 Jul 2019 - 21:53

Blasphemy. DAMN YOU!

I don't suppose you have any particular points of ire to share from Gen. 3, Jim? As I say, it's not had many culled yet!

Cherubi is an odd one. I don't care about it at all, but its evolution was actually a pretty clever idea: bring out the sun and it goes full plant! Abstain. Happiny's on the chopping block as things stand.

Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Mon 15 Jul 2019 - 22:10

Balladeer wrote:: I'm going to fire Barboach and Whiscash, Pokémon so dull Cappa drew one as a blue sausage with a face, under the bus as my parting shot.

Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) - Page 2 Wtp11

~

I've got no real affinity for Gen 4 - I wasn't playing Pokemon at the time, and when I played them later on, I wasn't mad for Diamond/Pearl/Platinum. But there's some all-time great monsters here, like Piplup, Luxray, Munchlax and Lucario. There's some utter keech too.

Kricketot, Kricketune, Burmy, Wormadam, and Mothim are all shite on the bottom of my shoe to be frank.

Buziel and Floatzel are two I remember from my playthrough of the Gen 4 games, I remember them being stupid and rubbish.

Some of these Sinnoh evolutions are garbage. I'm looking at Mismagius, Probopass, Honchcrow and Yanmega and thinking: nut.

Agreeing with Balladeer on Glameow, Purugly and Carnivine. Piss poor!

Stunky and Skuntank have arses for faces, and are the worst things this side of the big bag Pokemon that they made later on.

Not fond of any of the legendaries. Proper Willysaurus stuff.

Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Mon 15 Jul 2019 - 22:13

Balladeer wrote:: I don't suppose you have any particular points of ire to share from Gen. 3, Jim? As I say, it's not had many culled yet!

Jimbob wrote:: Oh boy - yeah, I've already lost interest by Gen 3 - they start to feel like variations on the first 250-odd.

Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Mon 15 Jul 2019 - 22:29

I know, I know. I can't take universal hate or love though, else we'd never have got anything out of Gen. 1!

The Cappuccino Kid wrote:

The ~~man~~ sausage, the myth, the legend.

I don't care either way for Buizel and Floatzel (Buizel was kinda cute but not cute enough that I'd rescue it from THE CULL), agree wholeheartedly with the literal arsefaces, and... quite like most of those evolutions to tell the truth! Mismagius I could take or leave I suppose, but Probopass is a hybrid of the moai I loved ever since Super Mario Land and a compass which is pretty inspired; Yanmega is based on a giant prehistoric dragonfly and therefore wins 'cool points'; and Honchkrow I'm genuinely pretty fond of. It's a crow mafia boss. What's not to love?

Subject: Re: Pokémoff (#BuggerOffNationalDex) Thu 18 Jul 2019 - 23:25

Gen IV really is shite, isn't it? I went through that list and almost felt it'd be easier to list the 'Mon I like. Laughing

I agree with all the 'Mon you mentioned in your list Balla. I try and play devil's advocate when looking at what 'Mon others have put onto the chopping block but I couldn't come up with a convincing counter point for any of yours because at heart, I agreed with you. All shit.

I agree with most of Cappa's list too, but I'll throw my hat into the ring for Honchkrow. A mafia boss 'Mon is a great idea and it's a perfect fit for Giovanni who I believe uses this fella.

I do think most of the new final forms for older Pokémon are total shite though. Tangrowth? Barely looks any different from Tangela. Electivire? Horrifying. Magmortar? Stupid looking. I think Electabuzz and Magmar benefited from being single evolution 'Mon - it made them feel distinct. Can I retroactively ask for Elekid and Magby to be culled, actually? Laughing

I'm also going to begin my crusade against Fire-Fighting starters by suggesting that the Chimchar line should go. I really like the other two starter lines in Gen IV, but Chimchar is dull as dishwater. We've got cooler fighting monkeys already in Mankey and Primeape. The Torchic line felt fresh at the time, but the Fire Fighting concept was already growing dull by Gen IV and it didn't help that Chimchar and its elder forms weren't exactly the most thrilling of Pokémon to look at. At least Piplup and Turtwig were cuties.