Last Retro game you DIDN'T finish and your thoughts (sometimes old things are bad)

I thought there should be one of these to complete the {{Topic Matrix}}

Tir Na Nòg

This game fascinated me as a kid. It looks like confusing shit to anyone younger than me, but had that spooky opacity; if the game is hard, it must be more fun to get through and puzzle barriers right? In all fairness, it had 3 things that were ahead of its time:

1. Originally on the ZX Spectrum, where more than 2 colours in one area of the screen were a no-no, it stylised the graphics to make them look like drawings, rather than incomprehensible splodges - your man's got loads of frames of animation
   
2. They got rid of the idea of lives; whereas most games of that era made you start the whole campaign again if you snuffed it, here you drop your items and respawn at the centre of the world (in all fairness this is the afterlife, I 'spose it makes sense)
   
3. The world's in 3D - you can walk in a direction, and rotate the camera independently.
   

The power of the 8-bit home computers wasn't ready for that last bit though, and therefore the game is absolutely impenetrable. You can only walk left and right, and "rotating" the camera flicks the screen 90°. Anyone who complains about inverting axes, that's noting - you never really get the hang of whether you've turned the world clockwise or anti-clockwise, and so are immediately lost as soon as you turn; even with a map of the game in front of you it's impossible to know what to do.
Also before in-game tutorials, most of the items in the game will mean nothing unless you read the manual carefully. Except I got it on the tape of a cover of Amstrad Action and they didn't bother copying any of that shit. Not that this helps for most things anyway, we've got the "puzzles made by and for the game designer and not the consumer" curse. The manual insists you should go to your local library and read about ancient Celtic mythology; but one magically locked door has a letter B on the front, and you're supposed to carry honeycomb and walk into it, because Bs love honeycomb.
Here's the archive of someone else walking through it. Note how often they stop and look at their notes behind the scenes.

Never mind not knowing where you're going; I don't even know what I'm watching! "Impenetrable confusing shit" isn't a recommendation then, no?

~

Jings, I could make new posts in this thread nearly every day. Most of the games I try on Evercade and Antstream fall into this category, where I just kind of get bored of them after fifteen minutes. Here’s the last substantial thing I didn’t finish:



I admire Viewtiful Joe: Double Trouble for it's technical creativity. It’s ambitious use of the DS’s touchscreen as it’s key feature is pretty admirable in a way. It’s totally integral to the gameplay, letting you do loads of stuff with it. A few examples include Scratching the screen to stun enemies, Sliding the screen so you can move objects around and solve puzzles, and Splitting the screen in half so you can create new pathways through the level, and drop things onto your enemies too. Theoretically, there’s tons that the developer could have done with these mechanics.

It’s just very overdesigned in practice. All this multifunctionality is too elaborate, and it makes Double Trouble much more complicated than the Viewtiful Joe games on GameCube and PS2. Without them though, it’s not very deep or interesting, with the combat in particular being pretty slow and basic. Essentially, Viewtiful Joe: Double Trouble is a confusingly unbalanced game that I ultimately didn’t feel was worth carrying on with.

Jimbob wrote:

The manual insists you should go to your local library and read about ancient Celtic mythology; but one magically locked door has a letter B on the front, and you're supposed to carry honeycomb and walk into it, because Bs love honeycomb.

Excellent. Not to play, obviously. To read somebody else get frustrated about.

The Cappuccino Kid wrote:

Jings, I could make new posts in this thread nearly every day. Most of the games I try on Evercade and Antstream fall into this category, where I just kind of get bored of them after fifteen minutes.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Roast away good sir.

Beyond Good & Evil

I'm giving up on this so-called classic.

And I really didn't want to, because this game might be the quintessential PS2-era adventure. I just can't be dealing with all the forced stealth. The controls, the graphics, the music, the characters - they are all superb and remind me of that period, twenty years ago, when you would go through linear levels, vaguely tied together in a semi-open world. It has character, and a beautifully sombre feel to the world. I enjoyed the first few hours, exploring the world, collecting pearls, taking photos of enemies and wildlife, and pottering about the various streets encountering locals. But it takes a nosedive after this strong start.

The problem with this game, is that after the first 4 hours, it hits you with hours of stealth. Endless corridors which require expert use of the 3D camera. Ubisoft loved a bit of stealth back then, but it's simply not fun when your character, Jade, is so underpowered with her camera and throwing discs, that as soon as you alert a guard, they mercilessly destroy you. I'm sure the stealth bits must end, but I simply cannot be arsed to force my way through. Back in the day, I may have, but I have so many games to play instead at this point, I've left Jade and poor Peij in some brown underground lair to rot, much like any hopes of the sequel materialising one day. Has anyone else played this one, and made it through all that stealth?

Acht, I absolutely loathe mandatory stealth in non-stealth games (and indeed in most stealth games). I always felt like I'd missed out on BG&E, given how much the press has raved about it in retrospect. Reading that I'm sure I'd have hated my time with it. Shame.

Jimbob wrote:

The Cappuccino Kid wrote:

Jings, I could make new posts in this thread nearly every day. Most of the games I try on Evercade and Antstream fall into this category, where I just kind of get bored of them after fifteen minutes.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Roast away good sir.

Sad this never materialised.

BG&E is my 34th favourite game of all-time, but I've not really played since the Cube was current gen, though were rumours of a 20th anniversary edition which turned up on Xbox store in the backend.

I did like Beyond Good and Evil - I think the world was very interesting, and I'd love to know more about it; but I think if I'm honest I forgave a bit of the stealthy stuff - and it feels a bit antiquated compared with your Horizons and Gods of Wars. I know it's where a family member noped out of the game as well. I also assume the sequel's gone Duke Nukem Forever, with that fucking awful trailer and nothing else.

I saw my name at the top of this topic as I don't remember starting it - Tir Na Nog? Why did I think anyone cared about that!

I tried to play

as I love me an old-school pointy-clicky adventure. But it's just unbearable trying to use the control scheme of the NES. Will watch a walkthrough.

Jimbob wrote:

I saw my name at the top of this topic as I don't remember starting it - Tir Na Nog? Why did I think anyone cared about that!

I was saying Boo-urns cared about that.

The Tir Na Nog stuff was intriguing to read but I had no response!

Same and have said to Cappa before or mentioned with his retro reviews that I always give them a read, and they're great but often haven't got much to say about them

Jimbob wrote:

The Cappuccino Kid wrote:

Jings, I could make new posts in this thread nearly every day. Most of the games I try on Evercade and Antstream fall into this category, where I just kind of get bored of them after fifteen minutes.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Roast away good sir.

Sad this never materialised. [/quote]

Life and work are a lot different and a lot busier than they were when I posted that comment in early 2022. There’s not too many games I start up and don’t see through these days. The stuff on Evercade is usually the exception, though with some of those games the boredom sets in well before the quarter-hour mark. Nightshade is a decent example of that, I remember thinking it was a smart idea but finding it difficult to work out. Perhaps more than fifteen minutes, but I didn’t stick with it for long.

I never really bothered with Beyond Good & Evil, that and a lot of the early ‘00s Ubisoft stuff didn’t grab my attention – Splinter Cell, Rainbow Six, Prince of Persia, the list rattles on.

I don't know whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. I guess you seem to enjoy most of the retro titles you review, so probably good?

Buskalilly wrote:

The Tir Na Nog stuff was intriguing to read but I had no response!

masofdas wrote:

Same and have said to Cappa before or mentioned with his retro reviews that I always give them a read, and they're great but often haven't got much to say about them

Even if neither of you want to post 'I've got no thoughts but this is great, I appreciate it' in-thread (and we don't exactly have so much traffic that it'll clog things up), this exists. People don't know you like their things unless you tell them you like their things, and for most people that matters!

Last few years, I've given Cappa a nod for a few things and it mostly due his reviews.

Mario & Sonic at the Olympics

Maybe I was setting my hopes too high, but this collaboration between two of gaming’s greats (the Olympics and Sonic the Hedgehog) left me frustrated. I figured this would be an accessible, deceptively simple set of mini-games that offered moreish depth, a la other Mario sports titles. But I couldn’t get over how jarringly different the solo experience is from the multiplayer. It's so brutally difficult that any sense of fun was swiped from my hands quicker than a Dwain Chambers urine sample.

The thing is, with humans for opponents, the game works just fine. Trampolining is fun, and puts QTEs to good use. Swimming and running events utilise the classic waggle technique. Shooting is tough but acceptable. Table tennis is a riot when you get a rally going. And the long jump and hammer rely on precise timing more than anything. But I found playing alone, the AI could be very punishing. It's as if these were actual Olympic athletes. It's only highlighted by the basic controls for each game, and the fact each game is so short. It's not far off of WarioWare microgames, and the multiple introductory bits before the event, much like Dwain Chambers, took the piss more than they should have done.

In 2008, I may well have stuck with it, given it would have been £40, but as a £4 purchase in CEX in 2023, it’s mildly diverting at best. Next to Wii Sports, it shows a frustrating reliance on its crossover gimmick, and compared to other character-driven titles, Mario Kart Wii and Super Smash Bros. Brawl, it feels primitive, and it doesn’t try to make the individual events interesting or addicting. Nor does it offer the distraction of volume that a Mario Party does - if there were 50 different events, the ‘basic bitch’ vibes of it would be more agreeable. Of course, International Track & Field was clearly the blueprint for this type of game, but mashing buttons against tough opponents isn’t my idea of fun. The multiplayer though, is always going to be worth chucking on for a laugh, as the tension of the events lends itself well to local party play. Unlike Dwain Chambers, it could have been something great with just a bit more substance in it.

I owned it back in the day, not for full price but more than 4 quid, and I don't think playing in singleplayer ever even crossed my mind.

Well thanks for the comments about Tir Na Nog! I'll end up writing about Quest and Captain Blood if you're not careful...

But I know what you mean about the Mario and Sonic games - I got the London one because I thought it'd be mega-exciting given the mega-exciting Olympics (hey guys do you remember when we were really nice to each other?!) but there was too much faffing about between events for people to play, and there's no way I would've attempted it in single player mode like you did!

I remember the torch went past right outside my window, and I remember sitting through all the horse events with my then-girlfriend.

I have no idea who Dwain Chambers is, but the repeated references to him made me smile anyway. Later games in the series went a bit harder on the Mario & Sonic content didn't they? I have vague memories of Dream World events. Not that I've ever played one, more or less for the reasons you give: I'm not going to get enough friends to play them with me on a regular basis, not when Mario Kart Smash and Overcooked exist.

That’s kind of disappointing to read. I just bought the original Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games again the other day, it’s been in-and-out of my collection for years (as it usually had higher trade-in value than what I’d paid for it). I’d fully planned on going through some Olympic computer games when Paris 2024 is happening, they’re from a genre I oddly enjoy even as a solo experience.

I really liked Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games when it was new, I did indeed by it for £40 (in Woolworths!). I completed it on my own and I thought it was pretty good, or a convincing use of the motion controls anyway. My pals and I played it for hours post-pub on Hogmanay 2007, it’s become one of my fondest and funniest multiplayer session memories. I remember it’s what replaced Wii Sports as the go-to multiplayer game whenever I’d have folk round to my bit or when I’d be asked to bring the Wii round to any mates’ empties. Good times.

That’s nearly sixteen years ago mind, and it might very well feel uninteresting and basic when I give it another go next year.

I think its fair to say you have a different tolerance for naff sports games and minigame collections than some people, though.