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 Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?

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Athrun888
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Tue 27 Oct 2015 - 17:47

Some of these are super easy, as I sometimes end up contemplating how I'd tinker with them.  

Persona 3 Portable

Add in the original and Fes' overworld, the cutscenes, The Answer chapter, and the removal of forced lovers route for social links.  Also either remove or allow us to kill the Magician social link, having to put up with that absolute brat to get Surt is ridiculous.  

Zelda majoras mask

This game is already perfect, moving on...

Xenoblade

Ooh, I could write an essay about what this needs changing.  I'll keep it to non-spoilers and say the entire side-quest system.  Yes, the whole entire system needs to get thrown in a bin, the bin to be incinerated, and the ashes to be depositied in the middle of a class five cyclone.  

All side quests should be removed, and in their place far fewer but better ones should be made, all of them should have a proper storyline that either adds to the worlds lore, cast backgrounds, or have their own engaging plotlines.  Anything that passes for filler, aka almost all of the current ones, are scraped.  

Tales of Xillia

Give the game an actual overworld besides the copy-paste rubbish that passes for one now.  Also less stiff voice acting.  

Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc
Danganronpa: Goodbye Despair


Fine as they are.

Persona 4 Golden

Hooboy, a TON here.  For starters, give us a female route like Persona 3's portable version.  Second, remove any and every single mention of Marie from the plane of existence.  Thirdly..

plot twist spoilers, seriously DO NOT READ if you're planning on playing this:
 

"Latest Version" Pokemon

Make them as tough as Platinum.  That is all.

Zelda wind waker

A few extra dungeons maybe, can't really think of anything else that the hd version didn't fix.

Lightning Returns

Honestly, as flawed as this game is, I wouldn't change anything about it.  It's one of those strange things that just... Works somehow.
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Tue 27 Oct 2015 - 19:39

That's a great question, Balla.

10 - Elder Scrolls: Skyrim: Sounds dumb this, but change the UI. Oblivion had the Olde-Worlde font on Parchment look, which matched the feel of the game. Skyrim's looks like a 201X open world UI, with a narrow simple modern font, silver on black. And stop plonking the quest updates on the screen like it's Doom telling me I need the Blue Key Card.
9 - Earthbound: Not a lot. It's not the all-time best game, but I don't think there's a lot you could do to fix it. Mind you, I don't normally like JRPGs, so the rest of you weeaboos* could probably suggest gutting the battle system!
8 - Super Mario World: Again, not an awful lot; there's this one bit in the Forest of Illusion where two of the required exits actually write over the path of the other, so you can potentially miss one out and not realise it.
7 - Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask: This is a bit greedy, but, given that it's impossible to help everyone all in one go, I'd quite like to play "Day 4" after beating the game; tidying up loose ends and actually seeing people's daily routine without the threat of impending doom. That and rewrite the Ballad of the Wind Fish in the milk bar. It's supposed to be emotionally stirring, but actually sounds like a 5 year old got hold of Magix Music Maker.
6 - Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess: I think I really like this game, but the pacing of the story's a little out of whack. After the halfway point (and it's not the only Zelda game to suffer from this) it just sortof goes "and get these bits too". Also, remove the fishing from the intro.
5 - Repton 3: I could write anything here and no-one would give a shit! But, if the game had any chance of reaching a new modern audience, they need to reduce the level sizes, so that they can be completed in smaller chunks and without the savant-esque need to absolutely get everything 100% correct. And remove the randomly-behaving fungus.
4 - Super Mario 64: I wouldn't change the game itself, but if anything needed an HD update, it's this - Super Mario Galaxy 2 gave us a hint. Oh, and chuck the extra stuff from the DS version in.
3 - Elder Scrolls: Oblivion: Inversely to Skyrim above, I'd want to be able to chuck the character models, and the interaction with them, from Skyrim back into Oblivion. We could all do without the Bethesda Stare I think.
2 - Legend of Zelda a Link To Past: Firstly, make me buy it when it came out, and not 4 years later like a dipshit. Seriously, 12-year-old me should be taught a lesson. But srs, I wish there was a little more story to get through the Dark World's latter stages; as with Twiglet Pancakes, the story sort of goes "and then Link did this place, and then this place".
1 - Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time: Hahaha, no, silly! They've already prettied it up with the 3D update. But I'd like Nintendo to have made the Master Quest more different, for the re-release. Given how well most people know the game, it'd've been nice to have a couple of suprise New Game + things happening when you least expect it in the overworld.



*Sorry, that's a joke - I love you all
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Tue 27 Oct 2015 - 19:46

Jimbob wrote:

3 - Elder Scrolls: Oblivion: Inversely to Skyrim above, I'd want to be able to chuck the character models, and the interaction with them, from Skyrim back into Oblivion. We could all do without the Bethesda Stare I think.



Brrr. No
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Tue 27 Oct 2015 - 20:01

Let's do my lot, then:

  • Phoenix Wright T&T  Scrap Jean Armstrong.  The only other possible improvement is making it, somehow, so that you don't have to sturggle through JfA's third case to get the full benefit of its sequel.

  • MK8  A DECENT BATTLE MODE.  That'd be enough to make it 10/10 in my eyes: the return of Mission Mode would bump it up to 11.

  • Meteos  Prevent the scrubbing, and give us an additional campaign.  3DS-enabled aliens and more planets wouldn't go amiss either.

  • Ghost Trick  Short but perfectly formed.  Sequel please.

  • SSBU  Many many things.  Scrap the third-party characters, more DLC more quickly (and more musics!), bring back the awards from the first two games, a proper one-player adventure, allow me to use my last Golden Hammer on the top-left corner...

  • OoT and OoT3D combined  Make Hyrule Field (at least as a child) smaller and tighter, and rework Jabu-Jabu completely.  Load of rubbish that was.

  • Xenoblade  Athrun's not wrong about the side-quests; but primarily, it needs to be easier to find them, or they need not to disappear.  Other than that, shrink Agniratha.  The amount of time spent roaming around that dull-as-ditchwater city...  Finally (how appropriate), the ending was shite.  Complete revamp please.

  • Metroid Prime  Pretty much perfect, for what it was.  Make it HD, perhaps, and (again) rework the ending.  

  • Paper Mario TTYD  A lot of people thought the final boss was overwrought.  I didn't (although I beat it first try), but a cut-scene skip would be good for those who thought as much.  Apart from that, this game was bloody diamond.

  • Twilight Princess Done this one.


Coupl'a other thoughts:

My opinions on what others have said:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Tue 27 Oct 2015 - 20:32

Balladeer wrote:

Athrun888 wrote:
Zelda majoras mask

This game is already perfect, moving on...

Seriously though, Jimbob's idea is a great one for this game

I can't say I agree with the whole "Day 4" idea. Part of what makes Majora's Mask so special is that whilst you can experience everything the game has to offer via wibbly-wobbly-timey-wimey means, you can't experience it all in one run - which means that some of the characters don't get their happy ending. It ties in so well with the atmosphere of the game, and I think stripping that away with a time-limit free final day would strip away the tension that Majora's Mask thrives on.
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Tue 27 Oct 2015 - 20:35

People have said that to me before, but I strongly disagree.  I like being able to tie up all the loose ends in a game and properly complete it.  Just because the game as a whole is miserable, it doesn't mean I want to come away feeling miserable about it!
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Tue 27 Oct 2015 - 20:52

You still can though - you can still fill out the Bomber's Notebook and complete the game 100%, and get all the mask rewards for doing so. You just can't do it in one run, and that's the entire point of Majora's Mask. I get your point though. You're looking for a Majora's Mask with an entirely resolved, happy ending (or at least as happy as Majora's Mask could be) and that's fair enough. But I don't think that would suit the game in the slightest.

I'd wager that coming away feeling a faint sense of unease about Castle Town and its people is the entire point of the game, and I love it for being that way. It's my third favourite Zelda game behind Wind Waker and A Link Between Worlds, but I'd likely rank it lower if it didn't have that wonderfully different storytelling style.
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Tue 27 Oct 2015 - 21:33

Bloody Nora, Balla. Shocked

Skipping the obvious graphical overhauls and that, I have:

Dragon Quest IX: I'd love for this to come to the Wii U VC with all of its DLC in place.

Kid Icarus: Uprising: give us a version/patch that uses the New New New 3DS's second stick so that everyone can appreciate the game.

Secret Of Mana: fix the whip so that it always looks like it's properly wrapped around the post it's supposed to be attached to. And allow you to fully level up all your weapons.

Super Castlevania IV: more levels please!

UN Squadron: more levels again.

Donkey Kong '94: and... more levels.

Yeah, I'm pretty happy with my favourite games, all told.
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Tue 27 Oct 2015 - 22:58

I'm saying that my top ten games are brilliant for what they are. That said, I know there's an F-Zero X Expansion Kit‍ out on the 64DD of all things, and I don't doubt that it adds a lot. As my arse isn't lined with diamonds and don't have the money for a 64DD, that Expansion Kit has been top of my Virtual Console wishlist since before the Wii came out.

Crazy Taxi could be even better as well. There's two maps in the game, and the Arcade one is the map I've played 95% of the time. The other one - which was designed especially for the Dreamcast port and everything thereafter - is good, but it's quite confusing and too spread out. A decent attempt, but it doesn't make the game any better.
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Wed 28 Oct 2015 - 7:11

I feel to tie up Majoras Mask like that would be to erase the point of it. Its entire aim was to be a bleak story with a bitter-sweet ending, and asking it to be happy is in my opinion like asking something like Game of Thrones to be happy. Misses the point of it if I'm honest and blunt.

Also why I said it's already perfect, may not be everyone's cup of tea, which is fine, but it was absolute perfection at what it tried to be, and remains one of the most haunting, moving, ambitious, and unique instalments in a series that far too often ends up retreading its own past.
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Wed 28 Oct 2015 - 7:40

I stopped watching GoT because it was too bleak and continued being too bleak throughout the time I was watching it, and sounds like it only got bleaker afterwards. While I appreciate that people like these sort of bleak endings, I don't think I'll ever be able to understand why.
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Wed 28 Oct 2015 - 7:42

Balladeer wrote:
People have said that to me before, but I strongly disagree.  I like being able to tie up all the loose ends in a game and properly complete it.  Just because the game as a whole is miserable, it doesn't mean I want to come away feeling miserable about it!

This is the ol' classic Balla again, isn't it? I have to say, I'm with other again. A fourth day wouldn't fit thematically at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Wed 28 Oct 2015 - 8:08

Balladeer wrote:
I stopped watching GoT because it was too bleak and continued being too bleak throughout the time I was watching it, and sounds like it only got bleaker afterwards.  While I appreciate that people like these sort of bleak endings, I don't think I'll ever be able to understand why.

Challenging oneself, having a change, things like that.  The darkness adds a sense of realism and intrigue, as does the detail and depth of the world.  That's what's got me in to it anyway.  Alas at the end of the day personal taste can't really be quantified, what one person likes another can just as easily hate, sometimes for the same reasons that the first person finds something appealing.


Those things that make Thrones as engaging as it is are also partially why I find Majoras Mask to be as well. It makes the world feel more real, and the fact that not everyone can be saved makes the choices the player makes feel more real and important as well, which in turn adds to the feeling of genuine engagement and immersion. All that on top of the highly scripted 3 day cycle allowing npc's to be some of the most real beings I've seen in gaming, the very embodiment that less can very much be more.
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Wed 28 Oct 2015 - 10:09

Right. Right. Right.
I just properly read this thread and I have got some thoughts. Unfortunately I'm at work right now but when I get home I'll be writing some words. Been thinking about it all morning and here are some teasers: game of thrones, halo, dark souls, sex, fruit pastilles.
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Wed 28 Oct 2015 - 10:53

...I think you writing "s*x" made my work computer unable to process this page, Drunka. Or maybe it just feels the same way about Dark Souls as I do? Wink Fruit Pastilles are amazing, though.

Anyway, to move away from the emotional side of MM (not sure what "the ol' classic Balla" refers to, but I'm very much a "f*** realism in fiction" person. There's enough realism outside if I want to experience that), from a gameplay perspective I hated having a timer on me. Having to do everything in three days or repeat oneself was a technical pain in the backside, regardless of its effects on the story. Also, I didn't think there were enough dungeons, and the water one was... well, a Zelda water dungeon, with all the frustrations that entails.

Anyway, I've ragged on enough about MM in a thread that's not designed for it. It's not for me, but more power to those who love it. TP and OoT for me, and their nice happy wrap-ups.
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Wed 28 Oct 2015 - 11:10

Sex. Shagging. Bonking. Rogering.

By "the ol' classic" I was referring to when we were talking about games with interactive stories and how you like to see every alternative, whereas I like having my version of a story and a thematic vision.
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Wed 28 Oct 2015 - 11:31

Aha. Guilty as charged, m'lud.
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Wed 28 Oct 2015 - 13:31

Balladeer wrote:
(not sure what "the ol' classic Balla" refers to, but I'm very much a "f*** realism in fiction" person.  There's enough realism outside if I want to experience that)

I should probably mention that realism when I'm talking fiction doesn't necessarily always mean actual realism ala GoT (although it does include it), rather that it simply means the world has a very developed set of rules and lore and that it strictly adheres to (none of that nakama powerup nonsense you'll see in stuff like naruto or whatever).
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Thu 29 Oct 2015 - 10:43

You can't always be happy.
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Thu 29 Oct 2015 - 11:03

I'm not! Which is why I like my games to be. But that's just me. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Thu 29 Oct 2015 - 12:14

Maybe I'm a wee bit twisted but I find beauty in the bleakness of games like Darks souls, Bloodborne (which makes me happy Smile ) and even though I wasn't a fan of Majora's mask I can only applaud the theme of the game.
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Thu 29 Oct 2015 - 13:22

Whilst I probably prefer happy endings overall, as long as the game has an ending that makes sense, I'm cool with it.
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Thu 29 Oct 2015 - 13:47

Thumbs Up! To Jaster, there is a dark beauty to seemingly nihilistic worlds and the struggles within them.

I like thematically fatalistic fiction because such works often engage honestly with real world issues, while adding believable characters within a given setting and a sense of suspense at every obstacle because fleeting happiness, or a character striving for something good, can be taken away at a moments notice without the universe giving a toss.

I tend not to care too much whether everything works out or goes horribly wrong for a given character/universe in the end, although a balance is oftentimes more fitting, what matters more to me is the overall journey. Moments of triumph, crushing defeats or phyric victories within a compelling setting over the course of an appropriate amount of hours makes the narrative believable and relatable, a reflection upon reality.

Many lambast Telltale Games for providing 'superficial' choices only, but through their well written dialogue I become immersed with the character I control, the actions chosen a seamless fusion of character and player. I love those games because they aren't about changing the world, they're about doing what you can in a Universe that isn't even aware you exist.

I wasn't a huge fan of Majora's Mask, but it is thematically fascinating, with mechanics perfectly intertwined with the overall narrative. Being able to rewind time basically makes Link a demi-god, a mini Superman if you will. But like Supes, it's not about saving everyone, it's about making choices for good or for ill and having to live with those choices.

I do sometimes like having my cake and eating it. I will fight a man who mocks any of Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventures, but when it comes to the whole 'I should have the option of making everything work out' logic, no. I play video games for escapism too, but that's no justification for a perfect ending all the time, and there are plenty of games where everything works out perfectly.

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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Thu 29 Oct 2015 - 16:15

Balladeer wrote:
I'm not!  Which is why I like my games to be.  But that's just me. Smile

That's fair. I'm just saying, fiction needs to exist which covers the full range of human emotion, and MM in particular was about a certain theme. Like I said at the start, you inspired the article but it wasn't all having a go at you specifically.

The_Jaster wrote:
Maybe I'm a wee bit twisted but I find beauty in the bleakness of games like Darks souls, Bloodborne (which makes me happy  Smile  ) and even though I wasn't a fan of Majora's mask I can only applaud the theme of the game.

Yasss! There's a reason Dark Souls is my favourite game and War of the Worlds is my favourite book. I don't think there's anything twisted about it. Like I said, there is a beauty in sadness. That's why people like Coldplay, Simon and Garfunkel, and Gotye.

Muss wrote:
Moments of triumph, crushing defeats or phyric victories within a compelling setting over the course of an appropriate amount of hours makes the narrative believable and relatable, a reflection upon reality.

Well this is precisely it. I don't want everything to be realistic, but good stories need to reflect the real world. That's what provides the emotional hook and makes them compelling.
Quote :
But like Supes, it's not about saving everyone, it's about making choices for good or for ill and having to live with those choices.


That's a good one as well. As much as I like a bit of darkness, I hate people complaining about Superman as if the fact that he's good invalidates the character. You don't get the same "can he do it?" tension you do in Spider-Man, but that's not what the character is about.
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PostSubject: Re: Your actual top 10/20/25/50/100/200 games - have you ever?   Thu 29 Oct 2015 - 18:03

For me (take that as read throughout this discussion), the best story can weave pyrrhic victories and painful moments in and then still end happily. There's no denying that you need some sadness in the middle to keep the reader hooked.

Also, the best bit about The Old Curiosity Shop was when Little Nell carked it; but to be fair, the best bit of any Star Fox game that dared to dabble with it would be Slippy's death.
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