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 NGamer Issue 1

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gjones
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PostSubject: NGamer Issue 1   Tue 16 Aug 2016 - 12:50

Ok guys, let's talk about what some of us were (and what some of us SHOULD have been) reading ten years ago.



I'll kick things off with the overhauled "Top 20" list for Gamecube which could be controversial:

Which do you agree with more?

NGC RankGameOriginal ScoreNGamer RankGameNGamer Score
1Resident Evil 4971Resident Evil 495
2The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker972The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker92
3Metroid Prime973Animal Crossing91
4Super Mario Sunshine964Pikmin 290
5Metroid Prime 2: Echoes945Super Monkey Ball90
6Mario Kart: Double Dash936Metroid Prime90
7F-Zero GX927Prince of Persia: Sands of Time90
8Pikmin 2928Hitman 2: Silent Assassin90
9Soul Calibur 2919Soul Calibur 289
10Timesplitters 29110Super Smash Bros. Melee89
11Super Smash Bros. Melee9111Mario Kart: Double Dash88
12Harvest Moon: A Wonderful Life9112Pikmin86
13Hitman 2: Silent Assassin9113F-Zero GX86
14Mario Power Tennis9114Super Mario Sunshine86
15Prince of Persia: Sands of Time9115Eternal Darkness85
16Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door9116Harvest Moon: A Wonderful Life85
17Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance9017Burnout 285
18Wave Race: Blue Storm9018Ikaruga85
19Battalion Wars9019Warioware: Mega Party Games85
20Chibi-Robo9020Timesplitters 285
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ZeroJones
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PostSubject: Re: NGamer Issue 1   Tue 16 Aug 2016 - 13:20

Been waiting for this. Cool

The dropping of The Thousand-Year Door from the Top 20 boggles my mind. I grant you that I've not played a good portion of the games on said Top 20 - which I just got to today when my laptop ran out of juice - but if you could find even five games that are better than TTYD on the GC, it's a far better machine than I thought. Shocked

In other news, the enthusiasm for the then-future Wii is almost prescient. Further, I never realised that the Retro bit was formed because of the Virtual Console! The more you know.
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PostSubject: Re: NGamer Issue 1   Tue 16 Aug 2016 - 13:28

Haven't had a chance to properly read this a second time, but I'll comment on those orderings.

I completely agree with Zero, but also in general with the ordering of the original top 20, or those I've played anyway.  Not the scores, natch, but Metroid Prime below Animal Crossing and SMB?  You're 'avin' a larf son!

Not sure what Mario Power Tennis is doing so high up though.
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PostSubject: Re: NGamer Issue 1   Tue 16 Aug 2016 - 13:48

Yeah I think the fact they removed Metroid Prime 2 makes it look like that high original review score was a mistake, or something they just didn’t agree with. Metroid Prime below Pikmin 2 (as great as that game is, it’s just a better version of Pikmin) is something I would change. I imagine a lot of these decisions were Mark Green’s as Super Monkey Ball (which I believe he is a big fan of) was pushed up from about 30th in NGC (when they had their Top 100 list – Issue 120 doesn’t unfortunately). NGamer seemed to adore Burnout 2 (judging by the last few issues Vault comments) yet it was definitely usurped by Burnout 3 and Revenge. That always felt like a bitter “Burnout 2 was the best one anyway” remark because the Gamecube didn't receive them. It’s a good game, but better than Paper Mario TTYD? Nah.
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The Cappuccino Kid
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PostSubject: Re: NGamer Issue 1   Tue 16 Aug 2016 - 19:06

That updated NGamer list would be the one that I agree with. I'd always felt that NGC was a bit too enthusiastic with some of their review scores (with an overzealousness that was only surpassed by, unfortunately, NGamer). They were right to correct some of those mistakes to make the list a bit more palatable and sensible, but also to set the tone for how games would be critically assessed in the new magazine. A new magazine with new writers and a new approach; I understood what they were trying to do.

In 2006, perhaps stuff like Super Mario Sunshine didn't deserve 96%, or Metroid Prime 2 deserve 94%. With a bit of time and perspective, Super Monkey Ball probably was the fifth best GameCube game to play in 2006. I didn't see anything controversial about the list at the time.

Nowadays, a full decade after Mark Greener-ised that list, it would be impossible to imagine that Burnout 2, Prince of Persia, Hitman 2 and others would be anywhere near it, as they've all been usurped at some point by their sequels. Whereas other games that aren't featured - such as TTYD, Jungle Beat and Viewtiful Joe - are looked back on much more favourably, and would be better candidates for inclusion.

On another note, in 2016, NBA Street V3 would probably be getting about 98% from me, just behind Beach Spikers with 99% and WWE Day of Reckoning 2 with 104%.
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PostSubject: Re: NGamer Issue 1   Tue 16 Aug 2016 - 19:22

I'm yet to read the mag but have downloaded it. Now looking at both lists neither have BG&E or REMake or Twilight Princess on, so both list are wrong but without them the newer list has 17 games I would want to play where the other has 16. Are the 17 better then the 16 games is the question and I think I would overall want to play the older list.
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PostSubject: Re: NGamer Issue 1   Tue 16 Aug 2016 - 20:38

Twilight Princess wasn't out, Mas.
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PostSubject: Re: NGamer Issue 1   Tue 16 Aug 2016 - 20:47

Ohh yeah, I think off it as a Cube game and NGamer moving on to Wii you can see why I thought it should be on the list.
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PostSubject: Re: NGamer Issue 1   Wed 17 Aug 2016 - 7:08

For me the previous list was the classic problem of a long-running magazine that used percentages for ratings; scores creep higher almost by default. If you give such-and-such a game 92%, say, and one comes out later that is objectively better, you've got to give it a bigger score. Then a game that's better than both comes out and soon you're boxed in to giving things higher and higher percentages.

It was the right idea to deflate those scores - I'm just not agreeing with how it was done.
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PostSubject: Re: NGamer Issue 1   Wed 17 Aug 2016 - 9:19

ZeroJones wrote:
For me the previous list was the classic problem of a long-running magazine that used percentages for ratings; scores creep higher almost by default. If you give such-and-such a game 92%, say, and one comes out later that is objectively better, you've got to give it a bigger score. Then a game that's better than both comes out and soon you're boxed in to giving things higher and higher percentages.

It was the right idea to deflate those scores - I'm just not agreeing with how it was done.

Exactly.

This was evident with Resident Evil 4. Despite being knocked down to 95, it meant that when the Wii Edition arrived, they had to mark it higher because it was a better version. However that meant that a last-gen game was one of the best games on the system, throughout the magazine's run. Granted, it's definitely one of the best games on the Wii, but it's a good reason to treat the magazines and systems as separate as possible. Pikmin 2 played better with the Wii remote and nunchaku, but I think they both were similarly scored (90?). Would Twilight Princess HD have received a 98 because the Wii version received a 97? Probably not, but we'll never know Sad
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PostSubject: Re: NGamer Issue 1   Wed 17 Aug 2016 - 11:31

I haven't got the scan working yet Duh! but my main complaint about both versions of that list: Pikmin is better than Pikmin 2.
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PostSubject: Re: NGamer Issue 1   Wed 17 Aug 2016 - 18:23

I've just heard of a similar thing happened at Game Trailers when Shane ran it on a Episode of Easy Allies Frame Trap, as Damiani the Zelda fan of the group (he's even been on stage at E3 for Nintendo playing Zelda, yet hates Wind Waker) was talking about what he's been playing recently he talking about Phantom Hourglass via Wii U VC and how back in the day he reviewed Sprit Tracks & thought that was better then Phantom Hourglass and still does but as it was better he had to give Spirit Tracks a higher score which meant it got something like a 9 even though his review didn't read like the game was a 9 or did he think it is but as someone gave Phantom Hourglass such a high score he had to do that.

And someone also added in a paragraph in his review to justify the 9 score, without telling him.
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PostSubject: Re: NGamer Issue 1   Wed 17 Aug 2016 - 21:08

Just read it all my god it brings back some memories! I miss the days of editorials in mags and looking at all the pictures with utter excitement!

On another note, it just makes me wanna play my GameCube.... Constantly....
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PostSubject: Re: NGamer Issue 1   Wed 17 Aug 2016 - 21:16

Hey, remember when Internet gaming news outlets had really funny little bits you had to search for, like on page 3 of this and the banner dedicated to all the boring corporate stuff?

Yeah, me neither.

Oh, and put the location in a spoiler if you find Lou Albano!
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PostSubject: Re: NGamer Issue 1   Thu 18 Aug 2016 - 20:40

GOD F@#&$ING DAMNIT
I had a whole post where I was taking notes as I read this and I closed the tab with some keyboard shortcut I don't understand.

Yeah, I like it. Nice trip down memory lane. Makes me wish we had a magazine going through every milimetre of Breath of the Wild like that. Funny that they mentioned cakes shaped like Wario's tash right there on page 1. I had other thoughts. They're gone.

Duh! Duh! Hissy fit Hissy fit
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PostSubject: Re: NGamer Issue 1   Thu 18 Aug 2016 - 21:53

Remember when we griped about how shiny and corporate Nintendo's adverts were? What we wouldn't give to have them back now, eh? Sad

This is the stuff. I'm reading it through slowly, hopefully I'll have a post to make about this every day all month. Grin
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PostSubject: Re: NGamer Issue 1   Thu 18 Aug 2016 - 22:42

Ah, I'm loving this. I never had the first couple of issues - I know I just wrote just this just in just the last post just, but thanks Grant.

I guess a quick comment on the top scores: I don't agree with Paper Mario TTYD being missing, but I'm glad they fixed Animal Crossing - I'm guessing the original was marked down for its similarity to the N64 game.

I've got to about page 40 so far, but, reading the news section, my thoughts that gaming mags are much drier now has been confirmed. I've never laughed out loud reading GamesMaster, but already Greener Sarcasm has made me very happy. Leavng in typos from his sources: "'they flatly declined'. I think they mean denied". "here's the response we got: voicemail". The whole box-out on analysts. Yeah, we're pretty much all Disciples of Greener on this forum...

Interesting reading the initial thoughts on e.g. Twilight Princess as well; concerns about motion controls taking over. Whether that happened is... a matter of all opinions *runs*
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PostSubject: Re: NGamer Issue 1   Thu 18 Aug 2016 - 23:13

Quote on page 105 that made me laugh at the time:

Quote :

Kittsy's returned to Rolling Thunder after this month's Namco Museum made his nostalgia gland spurt out of control. "I returned to Rolling Thunder this month", he says "after Namco Museum made my nostalgia gland spurt out of control."

I wonder if that's Matthew Castle's job that's being advertised on page 10...?

Also, look at the subscription gift! Bloody hell!

Last quick observation: I loved the way NGamer looked when Paul Tysall was the magazine's art editor. I loved that overabundant style, where there was so much to see, read and find.
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PostSubject: Re: NGamer Issue 1   Fri 19 Aug 2016 - 9:52

In the other thread, Jimminy Jim Jim mentioned closure and that is kind of how this feels. Sad

One thing I find amusing is when there's a review or preview for some forgotten obscure DS game. Reading this feels so much like a historical document about the time period, I forget it was also an actual magazine for month by month gaming.
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PostSubject: Re: NGamer Issue 1   Fri 19 Aug 2016 - 11:07

Genuinely can't decide what my favourite part is but the review of New Super Mario Bros. is up there. It reminds me - as if I needed more reminders! - how old I am that I was a functioning adult (ish Wink ) when this was reviewed ten years ago. Shocked

DIGRESSION ALERT: The future birthday thing at the bottom of the forum is saying Balla's about to reach the age I was when I first joined the forum. Crying salty tears - though not too salty because old people need their salt.

NSMB felt like an odd game at the time but it kicked off a four-game series that has got better and better for me. Thumbs Up!

Have any other reviews stood out for y'all?
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PostSubject: Re: NGamer Issue 1   Fri 19 Aug 2016 - 13:51

The Nintendo happenings features Mickey wearing a NES T-shirt in season 2 of new Doctor Who! Now that puts the 10 years into perspective for me- feels like bloody ages ago.
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PostSubject: Re: NGamer Issue 1   Fri 19 Aug 2016 - 13:58

...aaaand a joke about Greener putting a big Yoshi up his bum. Nice!
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PostSubject: Re: NGamer Issue 1   Sat 20 Aug 2016 - 15:46

"You'll need to head out to the desert for more terrifying races. Just like in real life, then. If you live near a desert"
GREENER DAMN YOU!
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PostSubject: Re: NGamer Issue 1   Sat 20 Aug 2016 - 15:52

Wii dev kits costing 949! Another classic Crumpy moment.

Also, massive shame the NGamer band never got off the ground. From what we've heard on TRP, it would have been hilarious.
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PostSubject: Re: NGamer Issue 1   Mon 22 Aug 2016 - 14:05

The Cappuccino Kid wrote:
Quote on page 105 that made me laugh at the time:

Quote :

Kittsy's returned to Rolling Thunder after this month's Namco Museum made his nostalgia gland spurt out of control. "I returned to Rolling Thunder this month", he says "after Namco Museum made my nostalgia gland spurt out of control."

I wonder if that's Matthew Castle's job that's being advertised on page 10...?


Matthew confirmed it was the job he applied for.
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