Posts : 11892 Points : 11984 Join date : 2013-01-15 Age : 39 Location : Underground Corpse Pile.
Subject: Re: Wrestling Discussion Thread Sat 13 Jul 2013 - 12:11
It's best not to take wrestling serious but sadly there is still some folk that do.
oldschool Bandana Waddle Dee
Posts : 839 Points : 858 Join date : 2013-01-18 Location : Tasmania, Australia
Subject: Re: Wrestling Discussion Thread Sat 13 Jul 2013 - 13:24
The_Jaster wrote:
It's best not to take wrestling serious but sadly there is still some folk that do.
It seems the only way to take it is not seriously. I am usually the first to say that to really enjoy some pop culture, you need to disengage your brain and just go for the ride, as analysing will just suck the fun out of it. I feel that disengaging it to enjoy wresting is not enough and only what happened to Jack Nicholson in One Flew Over the Cuckoso's Nest will work for me.
Still, carry on, disregard me, I am out and I will leave you to enjoy what you enjoy.
JayMoyles Galactic Nova
Posts : 15873 Points : 15039 Join date : 2013-01-21 Age : 30 Location : The Shibuya River
Subject: Re: Wrestling Discussion Thread Sat 13 Jul 2013 - 20:11
oldschool wrote:
Can any, or all of you, the fans of 'wrestling', please explain to me why you like it? I for the life of me don't get it at all. Forget the fact that it is clearly big bloke ballet and scripted within an inch of its life, but more importanty, the 'characters' are just so horribly stupid and not in the slightest bit entertaining. Knowing it is a sweaty soap opera, what is the atttraction? Just looking at the 'fans' during an advertisement for it makes me cringe, as it is below base levels of human endeavour when it is clear they do believe it is real.
Sorry for any offence given here, but it is impossible to express a view without it.
Eh, the older characters were, but those ridiculous gimmicks have faded away and been replaced with more believable characters. One in particular, Daniel Bryan, is a smaller and less muscular than the norm wrestler who beats people with submissions; he recently went through a storyline where he believed he was the weak link in his team and that he couldn't make it alone. Believable and enjoyable. The scripting doesn't bother me, and the fact that everybody knows it is scripted now means that the fans are a bit smarter. The appeal for me comes from seeing a technically solid match orchestrated to perfection. If you have a spare 50 minutes, then please watch this match. The promo video at the start should tell you most everything you need to know about the match. It's the match I link people to when asked why I watch wrestling.
Also, yeah, nobody likes those type of fans, it's dated ever since the illusion that it was a real sport was shattered.
Dusty Knackers Bandana Waddle Dee
Posts : 894 Points : 919 Join date : 2013-01-15 Age : 39 Location : West Midlands
Subject: Re: Wrestling Discussion Thread Sat 13 Jul 2013 - 20:22
I spent ages trying to word a good explanation for oldschool, but I couldn't do it. After twenty plus years as a fan of pro wrestling, I can't really explain the appeal of it. Me for, I like seeing a contest between two opponents. Wrestling is unlike any other form of entertainment because you feel like you become a part of the show. I'm not sure if this video will help explain it in any way, but I'll link it anyway.
JayMoyles Galactic Nova
Posts : 15873 Points : 15039 Join date : 2013-01-21 Age : 30 Location : The Shibuya River
Subject: Re: Wrestling Discussion Thread Sat 13 Jul 2013 - 20:28
Good video, hadn't seen that before. Basically sums up what I was trying to say. Still, watch the match I linked if you have time - it's so good.
The_Jaster Din
Posts : 11892 Points : 11984 Join date : 2013-01-15 Age : 39 Location : Underground Corpse Pile.
Subject: Re: Wrestling Discussion Thread Sun 14 Jul 2013 - 15:42
Aye that's a great way of explaining it, now to go watch that Punk vs Cena match.
Dusty Knackers Bandana Waddle Dee
Posts : 894 Points : 919 Join date : 2013-01-15 Age : 39 Location : West Midlands
Subject: Re: Wrestling Discussion Thread Sun 14 Jul 2013 - 20:36
Anyone expect any surprises tonight at Money in the Bank? I anticipate all titles will be retained (with Big E Langston and AJ having a hand in Dolph Ziggler losing, completing Ziggler's face turn). Expecting the two ladder matches to be the stand-outs. I can't see anyone other than Daniel Bryan coming out on top in 'All Stars', unless they want to curveball us with Bray Wyatt entering the match, winning, and cashing in the briefcase at the end of the night - though it would be very soon to do something like that. The World Heavyweight Championship MitB ladder match is the most intriguing match to me, can't see who wins that, I'm telling everyone Damien Sandow will nab it, but went against that by putting a fiver on Dean Ambrose on Sky Bet at 11/1. I will say I've hated the build-up to this match, as Phillips mentioned on the last page, it's a bit of a jobbers match, but WWE have done nothing to convince the audience its anything but that. On-screen, the competitors have been bickering like a bunch of children, which I have really not been keen on.
Final thought - if the WWE Championship match closes the show, I'd expect whoever wins All Stars to cash-in at the end of the night. However, I can't see John Cena VS Mark Henry being on last, not a match many want to see, even after the brilliant retirement speech.
The_Jaster Din
Posts : 11892 Points : 11984 Join date : 2013-01-15 Age : 39 Location : Underground Corpse Pile.
Subject: Re: Wrestling Discussion Thread Sun 14 Jul 2013 - 23:22
Bray Wyatt sent out a tweet saying: "I'm here to break your 'heroes' " #MiTB
That could mean a number of things tbh, as for surprises? Not expecting any but its always good to be proved wrong oh I'm especially looking forward to seeing RVD.
The Cappuccino Kid Lumen Sage
Posts : 6660 Points : 6819 Join date : 2013-02-25 Age : 105 Location : East of Mombasa
Subject: Re: Wrestling Discussion Thread Sun 14 Jul 2013 - 23:36
I was planning on putting an accumulator on six of the non-MitB matches...a fiver would have got me back seven quid. Hmm.
I'm not expecting much in the way of surprises, but I am expecting the event to deliver in the ring. It's on Sky Sports 3 if anyone's interested.
JayMoyles Galactic Nova
Posts : 15873 Points : 15039 Join date : 2013-01-21 Age : 30 Location : The Shibuya River
I reckon Brock will make an appearance in the MITB All-Stars match - can very much see him being the missing man to replace Kane and turning up halfway through to get in a brawl with Punk which will spill out to the crowd, then someone will win as Punk's missing, setting up the SummerSlam match. I expect a combination of Ryback winning the match and a post-match Wyatt beat-down to "injure" Jericho so he can go off and play at being rockstar again for a while. Also, it's seeming increasingly likely to me that Orton will win MITB and punt Cena after he retains. Hoping to be surprised though (Cody Rhodes winning the WHC ladder match would be such a surprise)
The Cappuccino Kid Lumen Sage
Posts : 6660 Points : 6819 Join date : 2013-02-25 Age : 105 Location : East of Mombasa
Just finished watching the PPV. I'll put this stuff in spoilers, as it's much more than just MitB spoilers, but potentially for many, many PPVs down the line. You've been warned.
Spoiler:
Last night's results continued a worrying trend: the bookies keep getting it right. How is this? Apparently, a source from inside the WWE has been leaking the upcoming PPV results to some website since WrestleMania...and the source has been bang-on with every single match. The bookies, like with Payback, appear to have cottoned on to this, and altered the odds on the match favourites accordingly. Alright, there's no chance that, say, The Miz was going to win last night, but surely you'd have to have some insider knowledge to guess that last night's ladder match winner were indeed going to be victorious. In a way, Paddy Power ruined the results of the event before it was even broadcast!
The_Jaster Din
Posts : 11892 Points : 11984 Join date : 2013-01-15 Age : 39 Location : Underground Corpse Pile.
Well it's a good job I don't bet on anything what so ever.
Overall the MiTB was a strange one, it started really well with Uso's vs Shield & then the WHC MiTB match but after that it dipped massively for me until the Ziggler/ADR match, the final ladder match was great until the unexpected result.
Anyhow, the way I look at it we will get some great fueds out of it such as, Sandow vs Rhodes, the Uso's/shield looks like it will continue & the biggest one with Heyman/punk/Brock.
Tokyo_Sonata Copyright Claimed by Nintendo
Posts : 38 Points : 38 Join date : 2013-01-17 Location : Someplace far away (Yes, that'll do)
I saw the betting on Paddy Power yesterday and couldn't work out how they could be so sure of both Sandow and Orton when they both seemed like pretty competitive matches, I had no idea there was someone leaking results beforehand. In future I am going to avoid checking prices in that case because I certainly don't want every PPV match potentially spoiled for me.
The Cappuccino Kid Lumen Sage
Posts : 6660 Points : 6819 Join date : 2013-02-25 Age : 105 Location : East of Mombasa
I saw the betting on Paddy Power yesterday and couldn't work out how they could be so sure of both Sandow and Orton when they both seemed like pretty competitive matches, I had no idea there was someone leaking results beforehand. In future I am going to avoid checking prices in that case because I certainly don't want every PPV match potentially spoiled for me.
Spoiler:
Definitely with you there. At one point SkyBet had Damien Sandow to be 1/4 to win MitB - the bookies must have it sussed. I'd be surprised if the bookmakers continued having markets on wrestling.
As for the PPV itself, did anybody else's heart sink when they watched Curtis Axel come down and lamp Daniel Bryan in the main event? Under no circumstances should someone as talented as Bryan be attached to someone as unremarkable as Axel - the secondary championship doesn't suit either. I don't think Paul Heyman can verbally enhance Axel's worth any further: just lacks the pizazz of a Dolph Ziggler or a Dean Ambrose. Axel is capable enough in the same manner as the likes of Jinder Mahal and Curt Hawkins, but that's about it as far as I'm concerned.
On another note, I was pleasantly surprised by Cody Rhodes' performance. I think that's the best I've seen him look since he debuted. If it weren't in WWE, I'd have called it a proper breakthrough performance. I thought everybody had a good night in that match, but his was the standout.
Dusty Knackers Bandana Waddle Dee
Posts : 894 Points : 919 Join date : 2013-01-15 Age : 39 Location : West Midlands
I saw the betting on Sky Bet for the Money in the Bank matches, they had Orton and Sandow as the favourites, which puzzled me too. Think this will be the last time I bet on WWE, knowing that the results seemingly get leaked.
Decent-ish PPV on the whole, the Smackdown ladder match was my favourite of the night (I only caught the finale of the Tag Team Championship, will give it a watch later), was good to highlight some of the undercarders, and because it was full of heels gave WWE a good chance to see who the crowd would be prepared to get behind as a face - step forward Cody Rhodes.
I'm with you, Phillips, think my heart dropped out of my arse when Curtis Axel got involved with Daniel Bryan. Bryan should be being pushed in to headline matches, not dropping down to give the rub to someone who the fans don't react to - biggest disappointment of the night that was.
EDIT:
Spoiler:
Just as I post this, I read that John Cena VS Daniel Bryan is still the planned WWE Championship match for SummerSlam. Have to question why Curtis Axel got involved in MitB All Stars, unless it was simply to help CM Punk win (which Punk refused with the follow-up GTS)
The Cappuccino Kid Lumen Sage
Posts : 6660 Points : 6819 Join date : 2013-02-25 Age : 105 Location : East of Mombasa
I don't begrudge Curtis Axel his opportunity, as he's spend long enough in developmental hell and losing on the online programmes that nobody watched. It was always bound to happen, particularly if you're Mr. Perfect's son and you're backstage supporters include Triple H, Brock Lesnar and The Rock. It just brings back unwanted memories of Drew McIntyre's superpush in 2010. I wonder what Axel would be doing if Fandango hasn't got injured ahead of that IC title match...do you think the audience would have rubbished him by now, like they did Lord Tensai last year?
Dusty Knackers Bandana Waddle Dee
Posts : 894 Points : 919 Join date : 2013-01-15 Age : 39 Location : West Midlands
It's not that I don't think he deserves a chance, I don't want to see him in a program with the hottest wrestler in the company. I think audiences would have buried Axel by now, I honestly think the only thing that has stopped them is that 'Michael McGillicutty' doesn't fit in to any chants.
JayMoyles Galactic Nova
Posts : 15873 Points : 15039 Join date : 2013-01-21 Age : 30 Location : The Shibuya River
I thought the pre-show was the best match of the night, which is both heartening for the tag division but depressing overall. The WHC Ladder match closely closely follows it, and I'm chuffed to bits that Cody Rhodes will no doubt a face-turn, feud with Sandow and a likely WHC title out of it. Sandow winning puzzled me slightly as I wasn't sold on him as a main event talent, but with how Rhodes performed and how good a feud with those two would be, I'm not concerned. Also, Swagger and Cesaro tag-team, judging by their announcement as The Real Americans? So ready.
Elsewhere down the card - IC match was standard fare, as was the Divas match. Jericho vs Ryback was a decent match with a terrible finish and a terrible build - a guy like Ryback doesn't need roll-up victories, he should fucking smash Jericho's face in. Of course, it's probably part of some grand Ryback redemption program, but still, pretty crappy. Ziggler/ADR was great - should set up nicely for a feud finisher at SummerSlam where Dolph emerges from the heel cocoon as a fully fledged face by abandoning AJ and Big E and as the WHC. Cena/Henry, skipped most of it tbh, and the finish makes me worry that this will be Cena's year.
WWE Title Ladder Match - great match, okay finish. RVD still has it, two star frog splash off the ladder aside. Punk/Heyman was absolutely brilliant and I am pumped for that showdown on RAW tonight. Worried, as the rest of you are that they're going to put Daniel Bryan in a program with Curtis Axel, but I reckon they'll have a match on RAW where DB kicks Axel into next century and he moves onto bigger and better things. Orton winning, well, I called that, and it doesn't bother me too much so long as it's against Cena. If he cashes in against a triumphant Bryan, I may be upset.
The Cappuccino Kid Lumen Sage
Posts : 6660 Points : 6819 Join date : 2013-02-25 Age : 105 Location : East of Mombasa
That's one of the threads on Reddit in which this person has successfully spoiled an upcoming PPV event (Payback, in this instance). I've read the others, and he got them all right over the last four months, including WrestleMania 29. That just sucks.
JayMoyles Galactic Nova
Posts : 15873 Points : 15039 Join date : 2013-01-21 Age : 30 Location : The Shibuya River
Aye, he's been popping up ever since Elimination Chamber. I post on that subreddit (brilliant place for wrestling news and chat, even if the community gets a little too high on Ziggler/Bryan/Punk for their own good at times) and at first everyone was skeptical. But then Elimination Chamber was all right - including Swagger, which no-one would have called. Then Wrestlemania, except the Tons of Funk match not being on the card, although the result he called was proven right on Raw the next night. And so on and on... it's a little sad that someone out there would leak results, but I guess it's just up to your own willpower to not look at them and avoid the bookies leading up to a PPV.
Dusty Knackers Bandana Waddle Dee
Posts : 894 Points : 919 Join date : 2013-01-15 Age : 39 Location : West Midlands
From my reading of this Redditor (is that the right word?)'s bio, he only leaks the PPV results, because WWE themselves do this, and he doesn't like them doing it.
JayMoyles Galactic Nova
Posts : 15873 Points : 15039 Join date : 2013-01-21 Age : 30 Location : The Shibuya River
RAW last night... amazing. Brilliant episode, great angle advancement... couple of quick things:
Spoiler:
Heyman/Punk was fucking outstanding. Cody is face now, RVD's still got it... D-BRY IS MAIN EVENTING SUMMERSLAM.
Also, go back and listen to that Wyatt Family promo but instead of just taking it as him rambling on and on to the crowd, imagine Kane's in the ring and he's talking to Kane... that's where they're going with that.
masofdas The Next Aonuma
Posts : 23823 Points : 24217 Join date : 2013-01-18 Age : 34 Location : VITA Island
We all know RVD still has it Jay, he was wrestling in TNA about a month ago. I watched MITB yesterday (RAW this morning), it was okay but you can see where there going with everything,
So at Slam we get Cena V Bryan for WWE with Orton cashing in on Bryan to continue that feud ADR v Someone for WHC Ziggy v Big E CM Punk V Lesnar Rhodes V Sandow with the briefcase maybe on the line
JayMoyles Galactic Nova
Posts : 15873 Points : 15039 Join date : 2013-01-21 Age : 30 Location : The Shibuya River
Wouldn't call a lock on the Ziggler match or Orton cashing in, but your predictions fall in line with mine.
As for RVD, I'd heard he was pretty much phoning it in at TNA and was pretty shit there, so I was surprised when he actually could still put on a decent match.
The_Jaster Din
Posts : 11892 Points : 11984 Join date : 2013-01-15 Age : 39 Location : Underground Corpse Pile.
Even though I enjoyed his match with Jericho on Raw I thought he looked rusty in places tbh, but maybe he was still suffering a wee bit off the back of the ladder match.
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Sat 13 Jul 2013 - 12:11
